Nadu, Winged Wisdom - There is a new King of the cEDH table

[darrenhabib]

Nadu, Winged Wisdom - There is a new King of the cEDH table

DecklistCMCManaPricesChartsDraw 7

Commander

1 Nadu, Winged Wisdom

Equipment

1 Shuko

1 Lightning Greaves

1 Umbral Mantle

1 Paradise Mantle

Untap (self)

1 Aphetto Alchemist

1 Seeker of Skybreak

Continuous targeting

1 Elvish Herder

1 Unctus, Grand Metatect

Landfall

1 Bristly Bill, Spine Sower

1 Lotus Cobra

1 Springheart Nantuko

1 Scute Swarm

Mana creatures

1 Arbor Elf

1 Birds of Paradise

1 Boreal Druid

1 Delighted Halfling

1 Elvish Mystic

1 Fyndhorn Elves

1 Llanowar Elves

1 Joraga Treespeaker

1 Gilded Goose

1 Elvish Spirit Guide

Creatures (other)

1 Caustic Caterpillar

1 Haywire Mite

1 Siren Stormtamer

1 Sylvan Safekeeper

1 Gilded Drake

1 Volatile Stormdrake

1 Spellskite

1 Thassa's Oracle

1 Trinket Mage

1 Spellseeker

Enchantment

1 Mystic Remora

1 Sylvan Library

1 Rhystic Study

Sorcery

1 Green Sun's Zenith

1 Finale of Devastation

Instants

1 Pact of Negation

1 Mental Misstep

1 Dispel

1 Swan Song

1 Muddle the Mixture

1 Fierce Guardianship

1 Force of Negation

1 Force of Will

1 Chain of Vapor

1 Pongify

1 Rapid Hybridization

1 Cyclonic Rift

1 Force of Vigor

1 March of Swirling Mist

1 Essence Flux

1 Legolas's Quick Reflexes

1 Veil of Summer

1 Mystical Tutor

1 Worldly Tutor

1 Chord of Calling

1 Brainstorm

1 Sea Kings' Blessing

1 Sylvan Paradise

1 Sway of Illusion

Artifacts

1 Chrome Mox

1 Jeweled Lotus

1 Lotus Petal

1 Mana Crypt

1 Mox Amber

1 Mox Diamond

1 Sol Ring

Lands (31)

1 Island

1 Snow-Covered Island

1 Forest

1 Snow-Covered Forest

1 Tropical Island

1 Breeding Pool

1 Command Tower

1 Rejuvenating Springs

1 Yavimaya Coast

1 Barkchannel Pathway // Tidechannel Pathway

1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge

1 Otawara, Soaring City

1 Tolaria

1 Boseiju, Who Endures

1 Dryad Arbor

1 Gaea's Cradle

1 Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers

1 Pendelhaven

1 Yavimaya, Cradle of Growth

1 Ancient Tomb

1 Field of the Dead

1 Gemstone Caverns

1 Urza's Saga

1 Misty Rainforest

1 Verdant Catacombs

1 Wooded Foothills

1 Windswept Heath

1 Scalding Tarn

1 Polluted Delta

1 Flooded Strand

1 Prismatic Vista

Approximate Total Cost:

Aphetto Alchemist and Seeker of Skybreak can keep untapping themselves, getting 2x triggers each turn and even untap another creature just before your turn for another trigger. So in a four player game, good for 9x triggers.

Equipment that have Equip 0 can be used to get the full set of triggers off your creatures during your turn.

There is targeting with one mana, so that you can use unspent mana on triggering.
Elvish Herder requires g.
Indigo Faerie requires u.
Unctus, Grand Metatect can only be used as a sorcery, but it does allow you to target all your creatures for the turn with life loss and it does combo with Aphetto Alchemist and Seeker of Skybreak filtering through your deck.

Bristly Bill allow you to target a creature with each land you put into play..
Springheart Nantuko, Scute Swarm, Field of the Dead all produce token creatures with each land you put into play.
Lotus Cobra will help with the continuous targeting strategy, as well as just simply casting your spells.

Sea Kings' Blessing, Sylvan Paradise, Sway of Illusion can target all your creatures, so is are powerful cards for the engine.

Legolas's Quick Reflexes combos with Aphetto Alchemist or Seeker of Skybreak to kill off opponents creatures.

Spellskite can be used to double up on targeting triggers.
For example you use Elvish Herder to target a creature and then you use Spellskite to also target itself. Very mana efficient at the cost of life.

There are lands that can target your creatures if you are without other enablers.
Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers, Pendelhaven, Minamo, School at Water's Edge, Tolaria.

Just in general card selection has been made with creatures in mind. So many fast mana sources are going to be creature based rather than alternative choices.
Lots of one mana creatures with utility for this reason.

You put most of your lands into play and draw your deck within a few turns.
You can win with either Thassa's Oracle or Finale of Devastation.
Springheart Nantuko, Scute Swarm, Field of the Dead can overwhelm opponents with control backup.

Best against the rest
This deck doesn't really care about stax.
You don't need to be casting many spells, under a stax board you are happy to just keep putting lands into play and drawing cards with value Nadu triggers.
There are no real "hoser" cards for this card advantage engine. Note it is not even drawing, so Spirit of the Labyrinth or Orcish Bowmasters don't effect the strategy.
There are no ETB effects, aka Torpor Orb. Landfall doesn't get stopped by hate cards.
Graveyard hate is completely useless against the deck.

[pokken]

With only 26 lands and fetchlands I don't think landfall is going to be reliable really. At least not fast enough. Might want to find a way to turn cards into creatures. Since it doesn't draw it's a little problematic to do that but maybe there are some discard outlets?

An analog to Zombie Infestation feels or something that discarded cards to tap would both set up near infinites. Will have to see what the hive mind finds :D

I think Thousand-Year Elixir is probably a slam dunk here since it's a reliable way to get team haste for untappers and such.

Opposition is both a wincon and a free targeting outlet that might be worth thinking on.

I dunno. This card seems bananas, so dumb it's almost not worth thinking about. :D


Stuff I found
-Scuttletide makes crab tokens from cards. :]
-Ayula's Influence turns cards into dudes. So would go near infinite with opposition...except for the land clause lol

But it seems like without the en kor guys your main bottleneck for an infinite is infinite targeting.


(I see this is the cedh sub so ymmv all around)

[TheGildedGoose]

An analog to Zombie Infestation feels or something that discarded cards to tap would both set up near infinites. Will have to see what the hive mind finds :D

Mind Over Matter

I dunno. This card seems bananas, so dumb it's almost not worth thinking about. :D

Completely insane.

[darrenhabib]

With only 26 lands and fetchlands I don't think landfall is going to be reliable really. At least not fast enough. Might want to find a way to turn cards into creatures. Since it doesn't draw it's a little problematic to do that but maybe there are some discard outlets?

An analog to Zombie Infestation feels or something that discarded cards to tap would both set up near infinites. Will have to see what the hive mind finds :D

I think Thousand-Year Elixir is probably a slam dunk here since it's a reliable way to get team haste for untappers and such.

Opposition is both a wincon and a free targeting outlet that might be worth thinking on.

I dunno. This card seems bananas, so dumb it's almost not worth thinking about. :D


Stuff I found
-Scuttletide makes crab tokens from cards. :]
-Ayula's Influence turns cards into dudes. So would go near infinite with opposition...except for the land clause lol

But it seems like without the en kor guys your main bottleneck for an infinite is infinite targeting.


(I see this is the cedh sub so ymmv all around)

Good call on the landfall, I guess for each trigger there is a 1/4 chance of hitting a land, which is low.
Some number is still good, but defo shave some.

Of note nothing needs to be infinite, it got that Chulane, Teller of Tales feel that just a couple of turns go by and you have a massive land base and cards in hand that you've just won the game.

I did have Opposition and Mind over Matter in my potential pile. It just came down to mana cost.

Just purely on mana costs I'll go with Concordant Crossroads over Thousand-Year Elixir. But I could see running the Elixir easily as well.

I want to try out the discard outlets for creatures, great idea.

I'll need to play some games before I know how this all pans out with ratio of creatures to targeting outlets and how mana plays the biggest part in bottlenecks.

Added

• Scuttletide
• Ayula's Influence
• Concordant Crossroads

Removed

• Retreat to Kazandu
• Tatyova, Steward of Tides
• Turntimber Basilisk

[darrenhabib]

Aright spent some more time on the concept of this deck.
Found some gems in Sea Kings' Blessing, Sylvan Paradise, Sway of Illusion being able to target all your creatures.

This then lead me to think about the deck doesn't need to be about "combos", you can just out tempo your opponents such is the power of Nadu, Winged Wisdom as a draw and mana engine.
So I've removed most of the untap other creatures as they are slow to get going and require two of them to really get the party started.
Also the continues targeting, as I'm probably not going to have much spare mana.
With cards like Sea Kings' Blessing, Sylvan Paradise, Sway of Illusion your always going to have a full hand of cards, so why go over-the-top?

Anything that targets is a going to get replaced with either a card in hand or land ramp.
So it just makes sense to run additional instants that will protect Nadu, Winged Wisdom.
Also I've gone with Banishing Knack and Retraction Helix as they represent the tempo plan nicely. Draw or ramp, return a problematic card or in a pinch target your own creature for the additional trigger.

I also asked myself the question "What am I really willing to tap mana for in my turn to progress the game?"
I really want this deck to be played at instant speed, just deploying a few creatures would be the average turn.
It is very possible that I'm too low on my creature count. So I could see changing the config to have more one mana creatures that have some utility.

Added

• Sea Kings' Blessing
• Sylvan Paradise
• Sway of Illusion
• Tamiyo's Safekeeping
• Tyvar's Stand
• Banishing Knack
• Retraction Helix
• March of Swirling Mist
• Disrupting Shoal
• Rejuvenating Springs

Removed

• Unnatural Selection
• Neurok Transmuter
• Ioreth of the Healing House
• Forensic Researcher
• Kelpie Guide
• Vizier of Tumbling Sands
• Nissa, Resurgent Animist
• Roaring Earth
• Scuttletide
• Concordant Crossroads

[darrenhabib]

Alright, yes needed to increase the creature count, deck was far too reactive and needs to be getting creatures down to get traction better.

Added

• Indigo Faerie
• Caustic Caterpillar
• Haywire Mite
• Sylvan Safekeeper
• Tamiyo, Inquisitive Student
• Spellskite

Removed

• Banishing Knack
• Retraction Helix
• Brainstorm
• Resculpt
• Disrupting Shoal
• Nature's Claim

[pokken]

So I wonder if maybe focusing on just like...making 10 guys and then equipping Lightning Greaves to all of them twice is enough to overwhelm the game? Like end step make 6 tokens, untap and go bananas. Drawing 12 cards off of 6 tokens seems insane and consistent.

Another thing I was thinking about was...Living Plane and Earthcraft goes basically infinite right right on the drop right? (not quite infinite but...really close to it since every turn cycle each basic land untaps itself twice :D). I might be thinking of that wrong. But you gotta get the basic count high for that to work.

There might be something around Twiddle-storm deck concepts to think on too.

--

Setessan Tactics is a really funny one where you could make all your guys fight each other and draw a %$#% of cards.

(or with Living Plane one-sided land wipe after drawing a bunch of cards :D)


--

Candelabra of Tawnos and Living Plane go absolutely apeshit as well.

I think there might really be something to Living Plane / Nature's Revolt // Rude Awakening and then mass targeting effects.

The missing piece there would be critical mass of mass targeting effects I think, but by you could play some good cards too like March of Swirling Mist.

Seems like you're on a lo tof those effects already :D (e..g Sway of Illusion.

[darrenhabib]

So I wonder if maybe focusing on just like...making 10 guys and then equipping Lightning Greaves to all of them twice is enough to overwhelm the game? Like end step make 6 tokens, untap and go bananas. Drawing 12 cards off of 6 tokens seems insane and consistent.

I think how it will play out, is all you need is 5 creatures and you equip for 10 triggers, put 3 land into play and draw 7. And that just going to be too much for opponents to come back from.
Each one mana creature you play has a 47% chance to be cost free in the same turn, as you will trigger twice to put a land into play.
I'll add Urza's Saga for Shuko.

Another thing I was thinking about was manlands Inkmoth Nexus, Mishra's Factory, Mutavault, Blinkmoth Nexus are all basically freebies, as you can tap themselves to make creatures for additional potential triggers. I would never replace them with colored lands, but I see these as more like spells, so a configuration where it would be 31 lands (instead of 27) and you could never be mad about them being colorless that way

Another thing I was thinking about was...Living Plane and Earthcraft goes basically infinite right right on the drop right? (not quite infinite but...really close to it since every turn cycle each basic land untaps itself twice :D). I might be thinking of that wrong. But you gotta get the basic count high for that to work.

There might be something around Twiddle-storm deck concepts to think on too.

Basics, what are basics?

Originally I was looking at the potential of Ashaya, Soul of the Wild an creatures that untap lands to combo like Seeker of Skybreak. An Arbor Elf untaps itself type of thing.

Earthcraft is always a powerful card. There are a number of options to make lands a creature, Tatyova, Steward of Tides being an example.
The only real setback is you can only get 2x triggers each turn for each individual basic.

I went through all the one mana instants that target earlier today and there were a number that stood out for untapping.
Cerulean Wisps, Shore Up, Triton Tactics will often be mana neutral, if not net you one.
You'd want to have more creatures that can tap for u or more.

[pokken]

Looks like the combo digs in on Shuko and Scute Swarm, per the hivemind :D

The piece we missed is Displacer Kitten which also goes absolutely ham with the deck since it resets the trigger count and can also protect bird.

[DirkGently]

The piece we missed is Displacer Kitten which also goes absolutely ham with the deck since it resets the trigger count and can also protect bird.

Is displacer kitten even necessary? Seems like overkill to me. 4 mana is a lot when you could very plausibly combo out on 3 mana.

Personally I'd consider putting in some Ornithopters and such, just so you can keep dropping dudes to get more triggers even without hitting lands. Then one 1mv blink spell and you're drawing 14 more cards or whatever.

Admittedly that strat does rely heavily on a free enabler like shuko, but kitten doesn't seem super useful when you're paying 1 mana per trigger either.

[darrenhabib]

The piece we missed is Displacer Kitten which also goes absolutely ham with the deck since it resets the trigger count and can also protect bird.

Is displacer kitten even necessary? Seems like overkill to me. 4 mana is a lot when you could very plausibly combo out on 3 mana.

Personally I'd consider putting in some Ornithopters and such, just so you can keep dropping dudes to get more triggers even without hitting lands. Then one 1mv blink spell and you're drawing 14 more cards or whatever.

Admittedly that strat does rely heavily on a free enabler like shuko, but kitten doesn't seem super useful when you're paying 1 mana per trigger either.

Yeah I had Displacer Kitten as a potential but it looked to be overkill.

I saw discussion of Springheart Nantuko, but can somebody clarify if I just cast it as a creature (no bestow), will if produce a 1/1 with each land? If so then I'm in.

[BlackbirdPlaysMTG]

Nice CEDH brew! There are some people playing CEDH in my shop and the bird might actually be a commander I am interested in. Also considering building him for a more casual setting (maybe a focus on auras or something that's similarly janky?), but this guy is so easy to break .

EDIT: How good is Ayula's Influence? Nadu + the gang is the main drawing engine and he puts all lands you reveal into play (not a may), so the only lands you can discard are the ones you draw for turn and those that you draw through Rhystic Study etc. There aren't that many drawing cards in the deck. Will the Influence create enough creatures to be worth a spot?

[darrenhabib]

Nice CEDH brew! There are some people playing CEDH in my shop and the bird might actually be a commander I am interested in. Also considering building him for a more casual setting (maybe a focus on auras or something that's similarly janky?), but this guy is so easy to break .

EDIT: How good is Ayula's Influence? Nadu + the gang is the main drawing engine and he puts all lands you reveal into play (not a may), so the only lands you can discard are the ones you draw for turn and those that you draw through Rhystic Study etc. There aren't that many drawing cards in the deck. Will the Influence create enough creatures to be worth a spot?

You're right, I read Ayula's Influence as discard any card. Very unlikely to have lands in hand at any stage of the game.

Good luck trying to make a casual version, you'll need it lol.

[darrenhabib]

Alright I put the deck together and played two cEDH games which I won both, Turn 4 and Turn 3. Its busted, super busted. It might get banned. I had cEDH players complain in game, which hasn't happened in the past.
I think you might be looking at the best deck in the format. Like actual factual number one.

I made some adjustments to the list before I started as I've been watching some of the Modern decks just to give ideas on tempo.
But I'm playing on Magic Online and specifically Sea Kings' Blessing and Sylvan Paradise have not been implemented on it, so a couple of the best cards are not in the deck for testing this list fully.

Getting the equipment really is super import, so I added Trinket Mage, Tribute Mage, Whir of Invention and Muddle in Mixture.
Added Spellseeker that can get Sway of Illusion (really Sea Kings' Blessing/Sylvan Paradise) or Muddle in Mixture for a proxy search on Lightning Greaves.

I did whiff on lots of lands in the first game (off Nadu triggers), I feel like a higher land count is fine to have a few more. It makes mulligans better as well, I mulled to 5 the first game, but still won Turn 4.

Because I can't play Sea Kings' Blessing and Sylvan Paradise on MTGO I tried Phyrexian Walker and Mana Confluence instead.

ADDED

• Shield Sphere
• Elusive Otter // Grove's Bounty
• Trinket Mage
• Tribute Mage
• Spellseeker
• Muddle the Mixture
• Snow-Covered Forest

REMOVED

• Invasion of Ikoria // Zilortha, Apex of Ikoria
• Symmetry Sage
• Collector Ouphe
• An Offer You Can't Refuse
• Dispel
• Mindbreak Trap
• Noxious Revival

[benjameenbear]

Alright I put the deck together and played two cEDH games which I won both, Turn 4 and Turn 3. Its busted, super busted. It might get banned. I had cEDH players complain in game, which hasn't happened in the past.
I think you might be looking at the best deck in the format. Like actual factual number one.

This is a bold claim... but I'm inclined to believe it. Nadu consistently comes down T2 and can super easily run away with the game if it untaps with some dudes and an equipment. A few cEDH YouTube games I've seen shows how wild it can get.

So, based on your minimal experience, what's the best way to attack it? For clarity, I'm coming from a Tevesh + Thras midrange control perspective where I have some flex slots for interaction. I've been inclined for years to think cEDH is too creature-removal lite and I think this deck showcases this weakness, and I've purposely tried to build my deck to patch up this hole. My initial thoughts are the following:

• Attack Nadu's creature base with wipes and efficient, repeatable removal. This seems to be the best way to attack the deck IMO because Nadu needs a critical mass of creatures in order to achieve the correct payoff for Nadu's ability. If you can eliminate their creatures via Deluge, Yawg, Culling Rit, Oko, etc. it seems like they'll slow down significantly and become manageable. Don't get me wrong; this is hella difficult to execute given the protection/interaction suite most Nadu lists will play. But were you ever worried about keeping your board state against your opponents?
• Be hyper-vigilant about countering/killing the enablers. I look at this deck as a pseudo-combo deck in that it needs a certain number of enablers in order to start the snowball train. If you can disrupt that early enabler, it would probably slow the deck down enough to create more windows of interaction and neutralize Nadu's power. It seems like under no circumstance do you want one of the Equipments to resolve, since that's probably the beginning of the end. Did you notice any trouble in finding the correct density of enablers when you played?

[pokken]

Nadu is like your commander is Mystic Remora that ramps :D

There just is not any commander with that level of card advantage. It's like if Thrasios, Triton Hero's ability cost 1 or something.

[benjameenbear]

Nadu is like your commander is Mystic Remora that ramps :D

There just is not any commander with that level of card advantage. It's like if Thrasios, Triton Hero's ability cost 1 or something.

No disagreement at all. It's a stupidly overpowered card design that takes over games both with resolving its triggers and the card/mana advantage it can produce.

But, it IS dependent on the two things I mentioned IMO. I haven't played it or played against it, so I'm curious to get feedback from someone who's actually piloted it.

[darrenhabib]

This is a bold claim... but I'm inclined to believe it. Nadu consistently comes down T2 and can super easily run away with the game if it untaps with some dudes and an equipment. A few cEDH YouTube games I've seen shows how wild it can get.

So, based on your minimal experience, what's the best way to attack it? For clarity, I'm coming from a Tevesh + Thras midrange control perspective where I have some flex slots for interaction. I've been inclined for years to think cEDH is too creature-removal lite and I think this deck showcases this weakness, and I've purposely tried to build my deck to patch up this hole. My initial thoughts are the following:

• Attack Nadu's creature base with wipes and efficient, repeatable removal. This seems to be the best way to attack the deck IMO because Nadu needs a critical mass of creatures in order to achieve the correct payoff for Nadu's ability. If you can eliminate their creatures via Deluge, Yawg, Culling Rit, Oko, etc. it seems like they'll slow down significantly and become manageable. Don't get me wrong; this is hella difficult to execute given the protection/interaction suite most Nadu lists will play. But were you ever worried about keeping your board state against your opponents?
• Be hyper-vigilant about countering/killing the enablers. I look at this deck as a pseudo-combo deck in that it needs a certain number of enablers in order to start the snowball train. If you can disrupt that early enabler, it would probably slow the deck down enough to create more windows of interaction and neutralize Nadu's power. It seems like under no circumstance do you want one of the Equipments to resolve, since that's probably the beginning of the end. Did you notice any trouble in finding the correct density of enablers when you played?

I played another game and was beat. I had mulled to 5 and an opponent played a Turn 1 Drannith Magistrate and the others players (Talion, Tymna/Kraum) had no removal for it the entire game either (they had a Mother of Runes as well) locking us out and not being functional.
Actually my mulligans haven't been great, so I'm getting the feeling that the deck could do with a 30 land count even though the converted-mana-cost average is 1.54, just because you want Nadu to hit land drops early on the triggers in the case that opponents have early removal for him. This also means the mulligans are more flexible to find key pieces.

I think the thing I'm most scared about (besides Drannith Magistrate lol) is an early board wipe. So a Turn 3 Toxic Deluge and I didn't have a counterspell for it.

I'll need more games before I can really say what its weakness are. The first game I won using Seeker of Skybreak and then the other game Lightning Greaves, so hate cards can't be specific to one thing, i.e. Null Rod shutting off equipment can be maneuvered around.

Just from a game play perspective, as the Nadu player you want some sort of setup before you cast it. So it is not a case that you need to cast on Turn 2 type thing. As you mentioned, the best thing to do as an opponent is recognize the key card setups, maybe the untapping creature or equipment before Nadu hits the table. But as the Nadu player you could be patient and wait for the tap outs to happen.

[darrenhabib]

Nadu is like your commander is Mystic Remora that ramps :D

There just is not any commander with that level of card advantage. It's like if Thrasios, Triton Hero's ability cost 1 or something.

Talion, the Kindly Lord is the Mystic Remora/Rhystic Study from the Command Zone.

I feel the best comparison is if Chulane, Teller of Tales was a 3 mana Commander. Like that feels unreasonable at the cost right? Chulane does have a cEDH deck which would be pretty hard to justify now.

[darrenhabib]

I played 3 more games and won all three.
I have to report on the last game, I think it truly showcases that you don't need a threshold of cards to go off and how powerful Nadu is.
So I mulled an average starting hand that I could have kept. Then had to mull to 4 because the mulls were real bad! And I was going last. This game was certainly lost.
I have to give a turn-by-turn account just to show how little you need and behind you can be.

SPOILER

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TURN 1
I had Command Tower, Aphetto Alchemist, Phyrexian Walker, Trinket Mage and draw Tribute Mage for the turn no help. I need to draw lands otherwise nobueno.



TURN 2
Okay draw Tropical Island so able to play Aphetto Alchemist.
Malcolm, Keen-Eyed Navigator, Breeches, Brazen Plunderer player gets a great start.



TURN 3
I'm like please please let me draw a land for the turn. I draw one and start getting the double activation of Aphetto Alchemist.
But as you can see the Malcolm/Breeches player is going off! Vandalblast resets the other payers as well.



TURN 4
One problem I had was that I didn't hit ANY lands off Aphetto Alchemist triggers and opponent used removal on Aphetto (rather than Nadu), which I don't think was correct. So I had 7 triggers for no lands. I really do think that 30 lands is correct for this deck, for these exact situations where you'd prefer to be flooded and hit lands early. But I still drew 7 extra cards, so there is that.

So this is what the board state was just before my turn. Godo player almost wins with Treasonous Ogre but doesn't have enough life to equip Helm of the Host.



I play the Lightning Greaves with two creatures on the board. I then proceed to win the game. I hit some lands, which allows me to play mana dorks, and it just spirals from there.
Unfortunately the replay system doesn't show the last turn, the only thing I can show is the chat log just to make sure you don't think "cool story bro" lol. But I really wanted to highlight and report on just how little you need and win out-of-nowhere.

---

Going back to thinking the correct number of lands is 30 (or more) here are some changes.

Added

• Siren Stormtamer
• Barkchannel Pathway // Tidechannel Pathway
• Yavimaya Coast

Removed

• Shield Sphere
• Elusive Otter // Grove's Bounty
• Tribute Mage

[benjameenbear]

I played 3 more games and won all three.
I have to report on the last game, I think it truly showcases that you don't need a threshold of cards to go off and how powerful Nadu is.
So I mulled an average starting hand that I could have kept. Then had to mull to 4 because the mulls were real bad! And I was going last. This game was certainly lost.
I have to give a turn-by-turn account just to show how little you need and behind you can be.

SPOILER

Show

Hide

TURN 1
I had Command Tower, Aphetto Alchemist, Phyrexian Walker, Trinket Mage and draw Tribute Mage for the turn no help. I need to draw lands otherwise nobueno.



TURN 2
Okay draw Tropical Island so able to play Aphetto Alchemist.
Malcolm, Keen-Eyed Navigator, Breeches, Brazen Plunderer player gets a great start.



TURN 3
I'm like please please let me draw a land for the turn. I draw one and start getting the double activation of Aphetto Alchemist.
But as you can see the Malcolm/Breeches player is going off! Vandalblast resets the other payers as well.



TURN 4
One problem I had was that I didn't hit ANY lands off Aphetto Alchemist triggers and opponent used removal on Aphetto (rather than Nadu), which I don't think was correct. So I had 7 triggers for no lands. I really do think that 30 lands is correct for this deck, for these exact situations where you'd prefer to be flooded and hit lands early. But I still drew 7 extra cards, so there is that.

So this is what the board state was just before my turn. Godo player almost wins with Treasonous Ogre but doesn't have enough life to equip Helm of the Host.



I play the Lightning Greaves with two creatures on the board. I then proceed to win the game. I hit some lands, which allows me to play mana dorks, and it just spirals from there.
Unfortunately the replay system doesn't show the last turn, the only thing I can show is the chat log just to make sure you don't think "cool story bro" lol. But I really wanted to highlight and report on just how little you need and win out-of-nowhere.

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Going back to thinking the correct number of lands is 30 (or more) here are some changes.

Added

• Siren Stormtamer
• Barkchannel Pathway // Tidechannel Pathway
• Yavimaya Coast

Removed

• Shield Sphere
• Elusive Otter // Grove's Bounty
• Tribute Mage

Thanks for sharing this! Super insightful. Yeah, it seems like if your Nadu would have been countered or handled early on you would have been in a bad position. But it's also insane how little setup you need in order to win.

I wonder if you up the land count for Naud and include cards like Brainstorm and/or Scroll Rack? That way if you're flooded on lands in your opening hand, you can put them on top of your library to keep the Nadu trigger train rolling.

[pokken]

I am fairly confident the number of correct lands is closer to 32-33. In casual if you played 60 it'd be defensible and still busted. :D

[darrenhabib]

Thanks for sharing this! Super insightful. Yeah, it seems like if your Nadu would have been countered or handled early on you would have been in a bad position. But it's also insane how little setup you need in order to win.

I wonder if you up the land count for Naud and include cards like Brainstorm and/or Scroll Rack? That way if you're flooded on lands in your opening hand, you can put them on top of your library to keep the Nadu trigger train rolling.

I was thinking about Brainstorm, I'm not sure why I Brainfarted on this one as stacking lands on top is certainly going to help.

Added
Brainstorm

Removed
Tyvar's Stand

[darrenhabib]

Not to sound like a broken record, but I played another 3 games last night and won all three again, Turn 4, Turn 3, Turn 5. Now I will say that the quality of "cEDH" games on Magic Online is variable. There are some core players who have super tuned decks that they have played hundreds of times to know exactly how to win with their decks. But there are also some medium players with medium builds (still very competitive its just that they are dipping their feet into the waters).

But I have gone 8/9 now and no other deck I've played has that sort of win percentages. I play super tuned Meria, Scholar of Antiquity, Tymna/Thrasios, Prime Speaker Vannifar, Elsha of the Infinite, Kykar, Wind's Fury, Zur the Enchanter, Wernog, Rider's Chaplain/Bjorna, Nightfall Alchemist with Lurrus as a companion. I've played other brews (like I'm trying to tune a Tamiyo, Inquisitive Student for example) but the above decks are my tried-and-true winners.

SPOILER

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Turn 4 win


Turn 3 win


Turn 5 win

Interestingly the last game had another Nadu player, trying their own brew. As soon as they played Arcane Signet I knew their deck was inferior, that has no business being in the deck. Mana producers over 1 mana need to be creatures. Make that a Wall of Roots if you are going that deep.
This was the first game where I didn't have any enablers for the first 4 turns, except Sylvan Safekeeper, which I didn't want to use unless I REALLY need to draw into a counterspell. I had plenty of creatures, tons of interaction, but it wasn't until Turn 5 where I drew a Mystical Tutor and got Sway of Illusion (would have been Sylvan Paradise but this isn't available on MTGO) using Sylvan Safekeeper to draw it.

I guess the only other thing of note is that this was the first time I bestowed Springheart Nantuko onto a creature (Gilded Goose) and it did make me think what creature would be good to do this with?
As it cost 1g each time, I didn't use it once to create a copy (I was winning anyway).
Trinket Mage can be fine as it gets mana.
Spellseeker getting more Sylvan Paradise/Sea Kings' Blessing is certainly going to win the game if you have that mana available.
Lotus Cobra will realistically allow you to keep copying it, and once you have 3x copies of Cobra you are going to start exponentially making mana.
I was thinking about Cloud of Faeries that would make it viable and it is a "free" creature (thinking in terms of Shield Sphere type creatures) but as Springheart Nantuko is already making 1/1 tokens it just going to be a win more, as I've confirmed this combination of Springheart Nantuko + equip 0 is enough to go off.

[EDIT]
Just won another one, thats 9/10. This time Turn 7 and I had a setup on Turn 6 but actually didn't win that turn which is the first time that has happened.

SPOILER

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This is the turn where I didn't actually win in the going off turn.
I had used Unctus, Grand Metatect and Bristly Bill, Spine Sower to target all my creatures twice so that would have been 20 activations but just run out of mana and my opponent had countered some spells that turn to prevent getting Springheart Nantuko.



Obviously next turn I won easily.

[darrenhabib]

This game was kind of hilarious. There was another Nadu player (going before me) and this was there opening play.
Jeweled Lotus, Sol Ring, Chrome Mox, Lightning Greaves. I was like "oh boy" my Joraga Treespeaker start really isn't the same.

SPOILER

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But there were some key things here. As the turns past there was no blue mana from the other Nadu player and no follow up creatures.
The thing with Lightning Greaves is that it gives your creature shroud so you can't target it again. You need a second creature to alternate between. Other equipment is different, you can target the same creature.
Certainly if they played a single other creature the game would have been over.
But they didn't and it gave me the time to setup.
I ended up winner on Turn 4, the other Nadu player quit as they knew it was over. They tried to Boseiju, Who Endures my Shuko but I had Tamiyo's Safekeeping. Maybe one of the few times Safekeeping is better than Dispel. I'm not sure this is correct, there really isn't that many "destroy" effects in true cEDH, so I think Dispel is the correct card to play over Tamiyo's Safekeeping, but I really wanted to test it.

SPOILER

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That's 10/11 now.