@plaganegra Reaver goes infinite with Liliana so gets the nod. And two bodies. Card is great. Would play four if I could.
When I had one more counterspell I ran Ertai's Meddling which beats uncounterable effects and is worth the 1 mana surcharge for me.
Remand and Disallow and Tale's End are all other things I would consider. Countering bog can straight up end people.
(Remand and meddling both have play with protecting your own spells. Remand flubs at stopping instant removal that is cheap enough. Lots of angles to consider.)
Memory Lapse, Delay and Unsubstantiate are also worth considering.
I think the nearly strictly best of all these options is prooooobably Delay but for me I'd run Meddling. I love getting a Niv-Mizzet, Parun under there (and a lot of other annoying uncounterable effects)
Varina, Lich Queen - Esper Zombie Midrange
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/GRjik-7FLEa3d97JLdm9hw
For the Retrofitted Transmorgrant I'm looking at cutting Bladestitched Skaab or Sheppard of Rot. Although I'm open to cutting other zombies for it.
Bladestitched is a pretty weak anthem but it was a 2 mana body.
Sheppard was also a 2 mana body with a potential upside if it stuck around. Since I've leaned a bit more into some combos I think it's safe to cut one of these.
For the Retrofitted Transmorgrant I'm looking at cutting Bladestitched Skaab or Sheppard of Rot. Although I'm open to cutting other zombies for it.
Bladestitched is a pretty weak anthem but it was a 2 mana body.
Sheppard was also a 2 mana body with a potential upside if it stuck around. Since I've leaned a bit more into some combos I think it's safe to cut one of these.
Insatiable Avarice also seems like a really good fit for Varina and it's currently at a decent price point too - although it's going up quickly. I pulled one at the pre-release but Rowan got her grubby little hands on it first. 
Last edited by pzbw7z 1 month ago, edited 1 time in total.
Zed117 wrote: ↑1 month agohttps://www.moxfield.com/decks/GRjik-7FLEa3d97JLdm9hw
For the Retrofitted Transmorgrant I'm looking at cutting Bladestitched Skaab or Sheppard of Rot. Although I'm open to cutting other zombies for it.
Bladestitched is a pretty weak anthem but it was a 2 mana body.
Sheppard was also a 2 mana body with a potential upside if it stuck around. Since I've leaned a bit more into some combos I think it's safe to cut one of these.
Shepherd was never really good for me personally. If it was gonna do work someone killed it before I got untapped and I usually woulda rather attacked with it:D
Ol' Shep punches way above his weight; he's a card that must be answered or he will quite possibly kill the table. I'd rather my opponents spend their removal on a card like that or a card like Champion of the Perished - which frequently irrationally terrifies people, than hit an actual key piece.
After some more games played.
-Going to cut sol ring for land tax and rework my landbase with way more basics.
-I'd like to add Haakon and Foulmire as another combo. (Along with outcast that I already run).
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/GRjik-7FLEa3d97JLdm9hw
Unsure what two zombies to cut at this point. Maybe Phyrexian Delver? It's part of a combo with Rot Hulk & Gary, but I think it's not needed. Possibly noxious ghoul as my second, it's really only great when I mass reanimate. Otherwise Rot Hulk may as well go with Delver and get my curve down.
-Going to cut sol ring for land tax and rework my landbase with way more basics.
-I'd like to add Haakon and Foulmire as another combo. (Along with outcast that I already run).
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/GRjik-7FLEa3d97JLdm9hw
Unsure what two zombies to cut at this point. Maybe Phyrexian Delver? It's part of a combo with Rot Hulk & Gary, but I think it's not needed. Possibly noxious ghoul as my second, it's really only great when I mass reanimate. Otherwise Rot Hulk may as well go with Delver and get my curve down.
Delver and noxious were both cut long ago for me. Only 5 mana zombie is Gary.
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toctheyounger
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Seconded, these are low floor cards imo.
Delver and Noxious it is then. Thanks!
Will 8-9 basics be enough for land tax? Should let me activate 2-3 times per game.
Going to swap in Sevinne Reclamation. Taking out either Reanimate or Necromancy.
Will 8-9 basics be enough for land tax? Should let me activate 2-3 times per game.
Going to swap in Sevinne Reclamation. Taking out either Reanimate or Necromancy.
Last edited by Zed117 3 weeks ago, edited 1 time in total.
I ran six basics for the longest time and it was fine. What do you want Land Tax to do? Fix your mana and allow you to cast spells? Or fill your hand so you have cards to pitch?
Give me a few extra cards to pitch. Between shocks, fetches and enemy lands and my deck being mostly black, I'm not too worried about fixing.
I have to disagree on removing Noxious Ghoul, but I think context for the meta you are playing in matters a lot with how useful the card is. Are you in a creature heavy meta with a lot of dorky utility creatures? Are there other people running Zombies out through Field of the Dead? Then yes you should run the ghoul. If you are facing no-creature combo list then it makes more sense to remove noxious ghoul.
Hello zombies lovers.
I'm reworking my Varina deck for the 1000th time
So, I would like to know your thought about some cards.
- Flare of Denial: This card looks spectacular but... I think it's not a good idea to run it. Of course we can "easily" sacrifice Varina to pay the alternative cost. Well not so easy, depends if you have some single target reanimation. But we are very low on non token blue creature. Maybe i'm wrong but Pact of Negation should be a better option to consider for this deck. Even Force of Will should be better. Flare of Denial is a counterspell that needs a mana investment before you can use it. You need to pay for a blue creature.
- Mana Drain: I'm wondering if I want to cut this because I rarely benefit from the X colorless mana boost and keeping 2 blues open is not so easy. Maybe a Delay can do the job.
- Cosmic Intervention: I like the card but it never impressed me :D and I hate the fact you can't infinite loop with it. It's more of a protection spell rather than a combo finisher. This card is often off timing. The extra bonus with fetchlands is a niche situation. I recently cutted it for Liliana, Untouched by death (which is an absolute bomb in Varina and I would never cut her again!).
- Diabolic Intent: I decided to recently cut it. I don't really like the fact the card is useless without a creature to sacrifice. When I draw a tutor I want it to be capable of fetching a big spell for the win. And now, we have one more tutor in the form of Grim Servant. We can abuse Grim Servant with recursion.
- Gray Merchant of Asphodel: I cutted it months earlier. I never felt the lack of it. We can already infinitly drain the table with cheaper zombies.
- Archfiend of Ifnir: it was recently re-included in my list. The effect is so powerful. It can kills anything. Wathever Hexproof, shroud, ward, indestructible. It's one of the 2 non-zombie creature I like to try in this deck (with Roaming Throne, but this one is more an overkill than anything else...). I run Reanimate, Animate Dead and Apprentice Necromancer to recur it at cheap cost. This slot can be swaped for Dictate of Erebos. Archfiend does crazy stuff with Zombie Infestation too.
I'm reworking my Varina deck for the 1000th time
So, I would like to know your thought about some cards.
- Flare of Denial: This card looks spectacular but... I think it's not a good idea to run it. Of course we can "easily" sacrifice Varina to pay the alternative cost. Well not so easy, depends if you have some single target reanimation. But we are very low on non token blue creature. Maybe i'm wrong but Pact of Negation should be a better option to consider for this deck. Even Force of Will should be better. Flare of Denial is a counterspell that needs a mana investment before you can use it. You need to pay for a blue creature.
- Mana Drain: I'm wondering if I want to cut this because I rarely benefit from the X colorless mana boost and keeping 2 blues open is not so easy. Maybe a Delay can do the job.
- Cosmic Intervention: I like the card but it never impressed me :D and I hate the fact you can't infinite loop with it. It's more of a protection spell rather than a combo finisher. This card is often off timing. The extra bonus with fetchlands is a niche situation. I recently cutted it for Liliana, Untouched by death (which is an absolute bomb in Varina and I would never cut her again!).
- Diabolic Intent: I decided to recently cut it. I don't really like the fact the card is useless without a creature to sacrifice. When I draw a tutor I want it to be capable of fetching a big spell for the win. And now, we have one more tutor in the form of Grim Servant. We can abuse Grim Servant with recursion.
- Gray Merchant of Asphodel: I cutted it months earlier. I never felt the lack of it. We can already infinitly drain the table with cheaper zombies.
- Archfiend of Ifnir: it was recently re-included in my list. The effect is so powerful. It can kills anything. Wathever Hexproof, shroud, ward, indestructible. It's one of the 2 non-zombie creature I like to try in this deck (with Roaming Throne, but this one is more an overkill than anything else...). I run Reanimate, Animate Dead and Apprentice Necromancer to recur it at cheap cost. This slot can be swaped for Dictate of Erebos. Archfiend does crazy stuff with Zombie Infestation too.
You're seeing some synergy effects I think. For example Cosmic Intervention and gary are better together. You only need one loop to kill. I would probably want to cut the other if I got rid of either. It's subtle tho.
I can get behind cutting Mana Drain if you're not on an optimal manabase but otherwise I think we can use the mana to win pretty often. I've also used it to power a huge Epiphany at the Drownyard or dumping a bunch of dudes and Kindred Discovery a few times.
I think arch fiend is just not a zombie and expensive but yeah it is dumb.
I have fewer thoughts on tutors.
Definitely agree we cannot support flare of denial.
I can get behind cutting Mana Drain if you're not on an optimal manabase but otherwise I think we can use the mana to win pretty often. I've also used it to power a huge Epiphany at the Drownyard or dumping a bunch of dudes and Kindred Discovery a few times.
I think arch fiend is just not a zombie and expensive but yeah it is dumb.
I have fewer thoughts on tutors.
Definitely agree we cannot support flare of denial.
I'm not sure there are enough Zombies to make Flare of Denial worth a try; I'm certainly not going to bother with it. I have a grand total of four, and I just think one would want a majority of one's creatures to be and cheap to try this. Pact of Negation is fine, but my copy has been purloined by Stella Lee. I don't have anywhere near enough U cards to think about Force of Will for Varina although I did pick up one for Stella Lee. As an aside, I remember pulling Forces out of packs and boxes back when they were type-2 legal. They were a bit pricey for uncommons even then; $0.75 IIRC.
Sink into Stupor // Soporific Springs actually appeals more, but it's double too, so I don't think I'll try it in Varina, but I do like it. The color-appropriate MDFCs are already snuggled up in Rowan, but I don't much like them here, although Fell the Profane // Fell Mire isn't awful.
In general, my manabase is not well suited for it, so I don't play anything with UU.
I don't mind the extra cost for Diabolic Intent; sacrificing a Zombie seems pretty trivial and is sometimes highly desirable. There's room for the new guy, Grim Servant too. And there's no way I'm cutting Sidisi, Undead Vizier. If you're playing at a power level appropriate for tutors, there's always room for more. Most of my good ones are currently in Rowan, but I've got Grim Tutor, Beseech the Queen and Buried Alive in addition to the ones mentioned in my current list.
The really good ones - Vampiric Tutor, Imperial Seal, Demonic Tutor - do seem to push things to a higher level, so I don't think I'll get copies of them for Varina unless I decide to make another attempt at a try-hard list.
I couldn't cut Gray Merchant of Asphodel; he's just too good even without reanimation. Living Death and Zombie Apocalypse raise his stock and with Rooftop Storm, Liliana, Untouched by Death and a sacrifice outlet and it's all over but the crying.
At this point, I've decided to run only Zombies; there are certainly many creatures that could be profitably played, but I'm all Zombie synergy, all the time.
I can certainly see Cosmic Intervention working - especially with Foretell, but I've never found a copy and, truth be told, I just haven't tried hard enough. It seems like just another mass reanimation spell and a third one would be fine and a one-sided one does seem spicy, but I've just never gotten around to it. Part of that issue is I'm always tuning other decks and Varina is old reliable and doesn't often get the attention the new ones do. And, I'd certainly run Lily before I ran it.
Sink into Stupor // Soporific Springs actually appeals more, but it's double too, so I don't think I'll try it in Varina, but I do like it. The color-appropriate MDFCs are already snuggled up in Rowan, but I don't much like them here, although Fell the Profane // Fell Mire isn't awful.
In general, my manabase is not well suited for it, so I don't play anything with UU.
I don't mind the extra cost for Diabolic Intent; sacrificing a Zombie seems pretty trivial and is sometimes highly desirable. There's room for the new guy, Grim Servant too. And there's no way I'm cutting Sidisi, Undead Vizier. If you're playing at a power level appropriate for tutors, there's always room for more. Most of my good ones are currently in Rowan, but I've got Grim Tutor, Beseech the Queen and Buried Alive in addition to the ones mentioned in my current list.
The really good ones - Vampiric Tutor, Imperial Seal, Demonic Tutor - do seem to push things to a higher level, so I don't think I'll get copies of them for Varina unless I decide to make another attempt at a try-hard list.
I couldn't cut Gray Merchant of Asphodel; he's just too good even without reanimation. Living Death and Zombie Apocalypse raise his stock and with Rooftop Storm, Liliana, Untouched by Death and a sacrifice outlet and it's all over but the crying.
At this point, I've decided to run only Zombies; there are certainly many creatures that could be profitably played, but I'm all Zombie synergy, all the time.
I can certainly see Cosmic Intervention working - especially with Foretell, but I've never found a copy and, truth be told, I just haven't tried hard enough. It seems like just another mass reanimation spell and a third one would be fine and a one-sided one does seem spicy, but I've just never gotten around to it. Part of that issue is I'm always tuning other decks and Varina is old reliable and doesn't often get the attention the new ones do. And, I'd certainly run Lily before I ran it.
It's both better and worse than a mass reanimation spell.
1- it beats exile replacement effects
2- it generates two sets of triggers instead of one if you have a sac outlet
3- it's more mana efficient (can use 2 spare mana to foretell it then have a powerful reactive spell for 1W)
4- it does not reanimate from the bin, so it's much worse if you can't hold mana for it
5- it protects non-creatures and has fetchland abuse options
In general I think it is better than any mass reanimation beyond** Patriarch's Bidding and Agadeem's Awakening // Agadeem, the Undercrypt if:
1- you are running a full fetchland manabase
2- you are running a significant number of sacrifice outlets
I would cut Zombie Apocalypse before cutting CI, but CI goes very well with my build.
** Living Death is both a sweeper and a mass reanimation, so should never be cut imho, and should be considered in the sweeper category.
I've actually got three other decks that I would really like to have a copy of Cosmic Intervention for; it's just so good in any deck that wants to run sweepers. It's clearly good in Varina, but less necessary than in those decks that don't have access to mass reanimation.
Each time I doubt about Cosmic Intervention, each time you convince me to not put in the sideboard 😅
And I run 4 sac outlets (both altar, carrion and soul trader), plus 6 fetch lands. (I lower my fetch land count because it feels very boring to almost fetch every turn when playing with friends…)
And I run 4 sac outlets (both altar, carrion and soul trader), plus 6 fetch lands. (I lower my fetch land count because it feels very boring to almost fetch every turn when playing with friends…)
I think it's a hard card to play :D like it has a lot of mental overhead to manage it. Remembering foretell and to sandbag fetches and such.Reya wrote: ↑2 weeks agoEach time I doubt about Cosmic Intervention, each time you convince me to not put in the sideboard 😅
And I run 4 sac outlets (both altar, carrion and soul trader), plus 6 fetch lands. (I lower my fetch land count because it feels very boring to almost fetch every turn when playing with friends…)
I would not play it with 6 fetches personally. So cut with a light heart :D
I am on I think 10 or 11. And also crucible and field of the dead
I don't think I would play crucible if it wasn't going to reliably let me hit my fourth land drop, but it definitely had good utility with Varina. It is comparable to phyrexian arena with some upside.
I do like it but I think its stock goes up a lot when the fetchlands and field synergize. Being able to replay them and sandbag them for cosmic is another big upside.
Thanks to Xmage, I can do a LOT of testing with Varina and our new toy, Spymaster's Vault, is realy a fantastic card. The ability of that land already won me a few games. This card digs so much for a so little cost. The requirment of having a swamp should not be a problem 95% of the time.
Phyrexian Altar + Gravecrawler + Vault: with one card in hand, infinite recur crawler and draw your entire deck to reanimate for the win.
When someone wipes, sac all your board with one of our numerous sac outlet, then proceed to draw a lot with your last zombie alive.
Even conniving for a few card when opponents trade creatures is good.
Phyrexian Altar + Gravecrawler + Vault: with one card in hand, infinite recur crawler and draw your entire deck to reanimate for the win.
When someone wipes, sac all your board with one of our numerous sac outlet, then proceed to draw a lot with your last zombie alive.
Even conniving for a few card when opponents trade creatures is good.
I think we can seriously consider playing Feral Ghoul. It easily goes infinite and kills our opponents with infinite rad counters.
- Phyrexian Altar + Crawler
- Lili + Ashnod Altar + Automaton
- Haakon + Ashnod + Automaton
- Haakon + Phyrexian Altar + 1 mana knight
- Lili + Crawler + Phyrexian Altar
- Etc.
In fact there is a lot of « accidental » potential kill with Feral Ghoul. It allows us to spread the possibilities of going infinite. And a 2/2 growing menace body is not so bad by itself regarding our strategy. It help us achieve victory if other combo pieces are exiled.
Did you try the card ?
And more questioning regarding Grim Servant. It's not the bomb I think it was. The problem is the mana value and the devotion. Our deck is mostly a graveyard deck and we have more scenario where our devotion will be 0 or close to 0. Meaning that this 4 mana tutor is pretty useless by itself. After play testing it, it's not an all star. The best plays I had with it were when I was able to reanimate it with Reanimate or Animate Dead, so my devotion was between 1 and 4. I need more testing to be fixed on its fate.
Anyone else tested it ?
- Phyrexian Altar + Crawler
- Lili + Ashnod Altar + Automaton
- Haakon + Ashnod + Automaton
- Haakon + Phyrexian Altar + 1 mana knight
- Lili + Crawler + Phyrexian Altar
- Etc.
In fact there is a lot of « accidental » potential kill with Feral Ghoul. It allows us to spread the possibilities of going infinite. And a 2/2 growing menace body is not so bad by itself regarding our strategy. It help us achieve victory if other combo pieces are exiled.
Did you try the card ?
And more questioning regarding Grim Servant. It's not the bomb I think it was. The problem is the mana value and the devotion. Our deck is mostly a graveyard deck and we have more scenario where our devotion will be 0 or close to 0. Meaning that this 4 mana tutor is pretty useless by itself. After play testing it, it's not an all star. The best plays I had with it were when I was able to reanimate it with Reanimate or Animate Dead, so my devotion was between 1 and 4. I need more testing to be fixed on its fate.
Anyone else tested it ?
It counts itself for devotion so its minimum is 1
Plan on testing it this Thursday for commander night. At worse it comes in and can tutor Gravecrawler, skullclamp, reconnaissance, swords or reanimate since it counts itself for 1.Reya wrote: ↑1 week agoI think we can seriously consider playing Feral Ghoul. It easily goes infinite and kills our opponents with infinite rad counters.
- Phyrexian Altar + Crawler
- Lili + Ashnod Altar + Automaton
- Haakon + Ashnod + Automaton
- Haakon + Phyrexian Altar + 1 mana knight
- Lili + Crawler + Phyrexian Altar
- Etc.
In fact there is a lot of « accidental » potential kill with Feral Ghoul. It allows us to spread the possibilities of going infinite. And a 2/2 growing menace body is not so bad by itself regarding our strategy. It help us achieve victory if other combo pieces are exiled.
Did you try the card ?
And more questioning regarding Grim Servant. It's not the bomb I think it was. The problem is the mana value and the devotion. Our deck is mostly a graveyard deck and we have more scenario where our devotion will be 0 or close to 0. Meaning that this 4 mana tutor is pretty useless by itself. After play testing it, it's not an all star. The best plays I had with it were when I was able to reanimate it with Reanimate or Animate Dead, so my devotion was between 1 and 4. I need more testing to be fixed on its fate.
Anyone else tested it ?
Best case it can go get an altar, mass reanimation spell, etc.
