Unreleased and New Card Discussion

[Hermes_]

Templar Knight is probably going to be really expensive.

and Thrumming Stone will go up in price too mmm synergy Akroma's Memorial so many legendary artifacts.... and some shenanigans with Throne of the God-Pharaoh

[folding_music]

ubisoft property + infinite legends + human human human human + pushed garbage = literally watching my least favourite set of all time unfold before my eyes \o/

[DirkGently]

@folding_music You think? I mean, I'm happy to hate it for being cringe IP and flooded with the usual deluge of commander bait, but do you think it's pushed? There's only a couple cards that seem all that strong to me tbh. Caduceus, Staff of Hermes is a really strong equipment, but equipment is pretty jank (sorry to say) so it's not problematically strong imo. crystal skull, isu spyglass maybe? Though it's only 1 mana off just playing Future Sight and nobody plays that anymore. the capitoline triad is pretty crazy, but considering how few decks can play it and the setup cost required, it's probably not a problem imo.

Idk overall it seems like the UB stuff seems to fit into a relatively tame power band most of the time. MH3 spoilers I was concerned about how pushed a lot of the cards are. This set, thus far, nah. Looks pretty tame to me tbh. Cringe sure, but not threatening.

[Serenade]

...are we about to get a ton of R/W/G sagas? This is fine.

[5colorsrainbow]

Hey, it's my two favorite magic things: universes beyond, and painfully forced typal lords! /s

Man it's been a rough run of sets for me personally, Bloom Burrow can't come soon enough.

You do know Bloomsborrow is gonna be a typal set right*?

*As much as Innistrad is one.

I just meant it's going to be a setting that I enjoy, rather than detective noir or Western setting that share the trappings of said genres without having any of the actual themes of those respective genres.

MKM was not ment to detective noir its murder mystery. And imo did very well at that (story wise).

[Dunadain]

You do know Bloomsborrow is gonna be a typal set right*?

*As much as Innistrad is one.

I just meant it's going to be a setting that I enjoy, rather than detective noir or Western setting that share the trappings of said genres without having any of the actual themes of those respective genres.

MKM was not ment to detective noir its murder mystery. And imo did very well at that (story wise).

Agree to disagree I guess, mkm was a mess. I didn't enjoy otj but at least I appreciated what they were going for, I don't have many positive things to say about mkm besides a couple cool individual cards and a reasonable power level across the set.

[folding_music]

@folding_music You think? I mean, I'm happy to hate it for being cringe IP and flooded with the usual deluge of commander bait, but do you think it's pushed? There's only a couple cards that seem all that strong to me tbh. Caduceus, Staff of Hermes is a really strong equipment, but equipment is pretty jank (sorry to say) so it's not problematically strong imo. crystal skull, isu spyglass maybe? Though it's only 1 mana off just playing Future Sight and nobody plays that anymore. the capitoline triad is pretty crazy, but considering how few decks can play it and the setup cost required, it's probably not a problem imo.

Idk overall it seems like the UB stuff seems to fit into a relatively tame power band most of the time. MH3 spoilers I was concerned about how pushed a lot of the cards are. This set, thus far, nah. Looks pretty tame to me tbh. Cringe sure, but not threatening.

idk I see 3/3s for three mana with five abilities 'n stuff. i agree it's not as whacked so far as MH3 or whatever but I just don't like the way these cards are designed whatsoever

[Sporegorger_Dragon]

Well, it's gonna be difficult to shove all the characters in as legendaries, they're gonna have to push it a bit with abilities. Plus these MacGuffins gotta be worthwhile somehow.

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dies to Sip of Hemlock

He can avoid it by not talking.

[DirkGently]

idk I see 3/3s for three mana with five abilities 'n stuff. i agree it's not as whacked so far as MH3 or whatever but I just don't like the way these cards are designed whatsoever

I mean, that's kinda just what card design looks like these days, from what I can see. Do you think it's more pushed than OTJ, MKM, or other recently-released sets?

I do think people get too fixated on stats sometimes. Like yes, it's crazy that Nadu also has a strong statline, but if he was a 0/1 he'd still be 99% as strong as a commander. Unless it's, like, Slicer, Hired Muscle // Slicer, High-Speed Antagonist, most of the time the p/t really isn't a major part of what makes the card strong. We're not playing limited here, a 3/3 for 3 is very far away from a playable card. Hell, a 6/6 for 2 is very far away from a playable card, outside of some niche decks.

[folding_music]

big shrug. the fact that it doesn't impact commander so much doesn't mean the design isn't a mess
I think I'll go back to obsessing about Ice Age 'n stuff and give up paying attention to the new stuff. I didn't play any OTJ either, no idea lol
it's too much for me, I actively dislike a lot of these design choices

[DirkGently]

@folding_music Sure, I can definitely understand that.

Honestly I feel kinda split.

Non-UB sets have the aesthetics I want from the game, but the vast majority of gross cards, especially commanders, are from them. I'm always holding my breath that we don't get, well, a Nadu. Recently this seems to keep getting worse and worse.

UB sets, for whatever reason, seem to have a power level I find much more appealing, but I hate the aesthetics, and the cross-promotional nature of UB raises my hackles on principle.

Seems like every release has elements I really don't like about it.

[yeti1069]

idk I see 3/3s for three mana with five abilities 'n stuff. i agree it's not as whacked so far as MH3 or whatever but I just don't like the way these cards are designed whatsoever

I mean, that's kinda just what card design looks like these days, from what I can see. Do you think it's more pushed than OTJ, MKM, or other recently-released sets?

I do think people get too fixated on stats sometimes. Like yes, it's crazy that Nadu also has a strong statline, but if he was a 0/1 he'd still be 99% as strong as a commander. Unless it's, like, Slicer, Hired Muscle // Slicer, High-Speed Antagonist, most of the time the p/t really isn't a major part of what makes the card strong. We're not playing limited here, a 3/3 for 3 is very far away from a playable card. Hell, a 6/6 for 2 is very far away from a playable card, outside of some niche decks.

I think you're significantly downplaying the relevance of stats.

I have seen Nadu's stats be a relevant factor at least 2 or 3 times in each of the handful of cEDH games I've played against Nadu so far.

There's a fair amount of removal that Nadu doesn't die to.
It's a fantastic blocker vs nearly everything in the format short of Kraum, Tivit, and Atraxa.
With some of the enablers it runs, it can grow to be a real damage threat starting as a 3-power evasive creature for 3 mana.
Can threaten opposing Planeswalkers effectively.

For comparison, I have almost incidentally slowed down RogSi decks on numerous occasions by removing their 0/1 commander/enabler early and often with things like Fourth Bridge Prowler (in Yuriko).

[RxPhantom]

I thought my resolve was strong when it comes to not including UB cards in my decks, but Bayek of Siwa and Aya of Alexandria want so badly to be under the command of General Ferrous Rokiric. I need more Universes Within versions of stuff.

[DirkGently]

Looking at the commonly played removal in the format, very little of it cares about toughness. Maybe fourth bridge prowler is a relevant card in cEDH for some reason I can't fathom, but I've never seen anyone play it. Stuff like lightning bolt comes up on rare occasions - hence 99% and not 100%.

As far as blocking or planeswalkers, I guess I have a hard time envisioning a game where Nadu is sticking around on-board long enough that those things are relevant, and he doesn't just hurry up and win. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[NZB2323]

Haytham Kenway seems good in Éowyn, Shieldmaiden. I'm already running Inspiring Veteran, Knight Exemplar, and Marshal of Zhalfir.

Hunter's Bow seems good in Legolas, Counter of Kills.

[Hermes_]

With so many ways to cheat this into play, I doubt anyone will care about it's historic affinity

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[DirkGently]

@Hermes_ It's a lot better than affinity (usually). Play a couple mana rocks and your commander and it's probably down to a reasonable amount of mana. If you're playing an artifact or legendary tribal deck, it's going to be free most of the time.

If you're cheating it into play, there's probably something better you could cheat into play instead.

Definitely looks like a strong piece of equipment. But as I said before, equipment is bad so I'd be quite surprised if it's a problem.

If it wasn't legendary I'd toss that bad boy into my new Arna deck. Though tbf only equipping legendary creatures is a pretty big knock too.

[Hermes_]

@Hermes_ It's a lot better than affinity (usually). Play a couple mana rocks and your commander and it's probably down to a reasonable amount of mana. If you're playing an artifact or legendary tribal deck, it's going to be free most of the time.

If you're cheating it into play, there's probably something better you could cheat into play instead.

Definitely looks like a strong piece of equipment. But as I said before, equipment is bad so I'd be quite surprised if it's a problem.

If it wasn't legendary I'd toss that bad boy into my new Arna deck. Though tbf only equipping legendary creatures is a pretty big knock too.

My voltron build will take it for a spin at least for that deck this will be either winmore or make kills even quicker.

EDIT: Next month i'm going to try to post the decklist and some explanations including the custom sleeves i use for it.

[Dunadain]

Idk, I think you'd need to be a bit of build around to make this worthwhile, how many mana rocks do you plan to have out at a time? In Ebondeath it's maybe 4 in the late game.

[Mookie]

With so many ways to cheat this into play, I doubt anyone will care about it's historic affinity

Saw it and considered it for Thada - it's rare for me to pay more than 2-3 mana for Metalwork Colossus, and that's before considering that Thada herself will reduce its cost. I've run Blackblade Reforged in the past, and this generally looks like a comparable option.

• Staff of Eden, Vault's Key looks like an interesting option for Thada and other theft decks. No idea how many legends end up in opponents' graveyards though.
• What Must Be Done is a potent board wipe - not as flexible as Farewell, but artifacts + creatures is an interesting combination. The recursion mode is a nice backup option.
• Ballad of the Black Flag is a somewhat slow draw engine, but seems solid. I recently counted, and around half the cards in Sharuum are historic, so... yeah.

[DirkGently]

Idk, I think you'd need to be a bit of build around to make this worthwhile, how many mana rocks do you plan to have out at a time? In Ebondeath it's maybe 4 in the late game.

Well 4 (2-drop) mana rocks + ebondeath would make it free. Two mana rocks + a sword of X and Y + ebondeath would make it cost 1 mana. 1 mana rock + sword + ebondeath = 3 mana. Those numbers seem pretty reasonable to me considering how big the buff is.

[Dunadain]

Idk, I think you'd need to be a bit of build around to make this worthwhile, how many mana rocks do you plan to have out at a time? In Ebondeath it's maybe 4 in the late game.

Well 4 (2-drop) mana rocks + ebondeath would make it free. Two mana rocks + a sword of X and Y + ebondeath would make it cost 1 mana. 1 mana rock + sword + ebondeath = 3 mana. Those numbers seem pretty reasonable to me considering how big the buff is.

Disregard me, I skimmed the card and thought it was 1 less to cast per historic permanent.

Well should make a RTDC thread of shame XD.

[DirkGently]

@Dunadain lol, I was guessing you misread it but I didn't want to assume. xD

Considering most voltronny decks will have a fair number of equipment and probably some mana rocks etc, I think it'll fit pretty well into many of them. Legendary-matters and artifact-tribal decks can make it cheap/free, but they might be less interested in an equipment, even one with a pretty gnarly buff.

So far the equipment seems like the star of the show in this set, but that could be my own bias.

[Ruiner]

Excalibur, Sword of Eden seems like it's going to fit well in my Nahiri, Forged in Fury deck. Either it is free due to her ability, or probably free due to cost reduction if I draw it and actually have to cast it.

[Mookie]

Desynchronization is interesting. No idea if it's good though - on one hand, it's a cheaper Cyclonic Rift / River's Rebuke if you're heavy on historic stuff and your opponents are light on them. On the other hand, it doesn't bounce commanders or mana rocks, and it feels like pretty much every creature is legendary these days. I recall people being disappointed by Urza's Ruinous Blast in a recent RCotD, but seems worth testing. Better than Filter Out, at least.

....I'm looking at my Sharuum list, and it bounces 4 cards in the entire deck. So yeah, certainly matchup-dependent.