Commander draft experiences

[DirkGently]

I just finished my first draft of legends, and I'm curious how other people feel about the format.

I've been really curious about how the draft/construction would play out since it was announced, as I once built my own commander cube and struggled a bit with making the draft satisfying.

I think partner does a really good job of keeping draft somewhat flexible, since you can probably count on getting a viable partner if you move into an open colour, and the piper is always a safe fallback, if a crappy one. That said, I still find the inability to splash to be detrimental to the draft since it really puts you on rails once you've committed to a commander.

I ended up WU flyers with a surprisingly strong pair of Esior, Wardwing Familiar and Keleth, Sunmane Familiar. Esior got massive quickly, with reliable monarch providing some extra CA. Overall I had a great time and found it a fun combination of the two formats.

[TheAmericanSpirit]

I only do paper drafts and the occasional mtgo cube, so color me disappointed that I'll never get the true limited experience out of this set. However, I'm glad to know it works well. I had certain reservations about limited balance when flipping through the spoilers.

[WolfWhoWanders]

I too, am very bummed that I will not have the chance to draft this. I kind of plan to build a commander cube out of it and a lot of other cards. I don't keep too many decks on hand these days despite brewing like an unhinged madman so the cube should be easy enough to maintain. Rather unlikely it would ever be played anyways...my group is not very into the cube/drafting experience. Although I am finding some new folks with interest in it. But America is too busy being "free" to realize how enslaved it is these days. But hey, ain't no telling me to put no mask on hur dur dur. God it's embarassing

[onering]

Voltron is a bit too strong. There isn't enough efficient interaction, and there is plenty of support for voltron, so you can make some pretty interesting decks from a wide variety of archetypes, but strapping up Esior is just so reliably strong, fast, and easy to build with commons that it wrecks face quickly. And since the format lacks a number of things that define the commander meta, commander damage is very relevant, and strapping up an evasive commander and beating face is a sure bet and generally better than playing fatties or other battlecruiser strategies. It feels more like Ikoria draft than commander at times. But not every game is going to have that, and it can be interesting.

I kind of hate the way points for prizes are awarded on mtgo though, you get 1 for winning then 1 for each player that votes for your deck as their most liked. It seems really arbitrary, and too open to people being salty.

[AstralMTG]

Honestly, Commander Legends has been my favourite draft experience ever. I know one game is a small sample size, but there was plenty of interaction and everyone had a chance to 'go off'.

I really lucked out in the draft as I opened up Krark, the Thumbless and Sakashima of a Thousand Faces with red and blue being very open. I ended up winning through looping Explosion of Riches and having greedy opponents.

All of my opponents didn't hesitate to say that was one of their favourite commander experiences. The game didn't feel too grindy as it only lasted about an hour. However, I hear from other people that their games have been grindy and too lengthy.

[DirkGently]

Voltron is a bit too strong. There isn't enough efficient interaction, and there is plenty of support for voltron, so you can make some pretty interesting decks from a wide variety of archetypes, but strapping up Esior is just so reliably strong, fast, and easy to build with commons that it wrecks face quickly. And since the format lacks a number of things that define the commander meta, commander damage is very relevant, and strapping up an evasive commander and beating face is a sure bet and generally better than playing fatties or other battlecruiser strategies. It feels more like Ikoria draft than commander at times. But not every game is going to have that, and it can be interesting.

That's interesting - I haven't had any games dominated by voltron (well, maybe my first game kinda, but that was maybe the best partner pair for quick voltron kills, and also 3 player which benefits aggro strats like voltron a lot - plus one opponent got mana screwed). I've also never felt at a loss for decent removal personally, and I've seen lots of different archetypes doing well.

What's impressed me the most so far has been how many synergies there are between the uncommon partner commanders. Today I had the pirate duo (malcom and...whoever the red one is that steals topdecks), and then the rock-making dude with the guy that -x/-xs for the number of artifacts you control - and I had other partner options that were also synergistic in different ways. Both felt like a limited version of a potentially real commander deck, which was really cool. In both cases I'd say 80%+ of my deck had synergy with what I was doing, which felt great and I'd frequently get playable cards in the last picks because of how synergistic so many of the cards were.

[JWK]

I don't do MTGO, and Iowa is currently pandemic central, so I don't know that I am going to get any chance to draft this set any time soon, but I am actually loving it as a sealed set, both in person with my wife and a couple close friends who are COVID-safe and online via webcam.

The games I have played feel very much like commander games, particularly commander more how it was played a few years back when things were a bit more janky and games tended to go a bit longer. That's not to say there isn't a lot of power in this set - there absolutely is, and blow-outs are possible, as some pairings are comborific, allowing you to generate tons of mana or draw tons of cards. The synergy Dirk mentions is all over the place.... there are so many good partner combos that you are almost certain to get a pretty playable deck. There is also ample fixing, especially in terms of mana rocks, which makes most of the 3-color commanders viable, should you happen to get one, though some are obviously stronger than others. Colfenor is an absolute rockstar; it seems like almost everything else in his colors synergizes with him in some way. There are some exceptions - the card pool in this set won't allow you to do much wih Obeka, and you'd have to be very fortunate in your pull to make a lot out of the Mardu enchantments guy - but out of four so far, I have pulled only one pool that didn't provide me with multiple viable ways to build, and even that one gave me a UR pirates deck that has done pretty well despite my not pulling any of the better pirate commander options.

So far, Commander Legends sealed has been one of the three best limited experiences I've ever had, on par with Innistrad draft and drafting the original Conspiracy set. It's vastly better than any standard-legal set we've had for a long, long time.

[onering]

Voltron is a bit too strong. There isn't enough efficient interaction, and there is plenty of support for voltron, so you can make some pretty interesting decks from a wide variety of archetypes, but strapping up Esior is just so reliably strong, fast, and easy to build with commons that it wrecks face quickly. And since the format lacks a number of things that define the commander meta, commander damage is very relevant, and strapping up an evasive commander and beating face is a sure bet and generally better than playing fatties or other battlecruiser strategies. It feels more like Ikoria draft than commander at times. But not every game is going to have that, and it can be interesting.

That's interesting - I haven't had any games dominated by voltron (well, maybe my first game kinda, but that was maybe the best partner pair for quick voltron kills, and also 3 player which benefits aggro strats like voltron a lot - plus one opponent got mana screwed). I've also never felt at a loss for decent removal personally, and I've seen lots of different archetypes doing well.

What's impressed me the most so far has been how many synergies there are between the uncommon partner commanders. Today I had the pirate duo (malcom and...whoever the red one is that steals topdecks), and then the rock-making dude with the guy that -x/-xs for the number of artifacts you control - and I had other partner options that were also synergistic in different ways. Both felt like a limited version of a potentially real commander deck, which was really cool. In both cases I'd say 80%+ of my deck had synergy with what I was doing, which felt great and I'd frequently get playable cards in the last picks because of how synergistic so many of the cards were.

After getting more drafts in, I've seen a bit more variety but still suiting up an evasive dude seems to be one of the best strategies. Not every game has had voltron, but most have and have. It's no longer as dominant though as people have adjusted a bit and are more likely to gang up on voltron. Removal is certainly less efficient and prevalent than in normal commander, so that helps Voltron a lot. It's not bad compared to other draft environments, but it's weak enough to let Voltron be a strong strategy available to most color combos. A number of the commanders help support it pretty well, like the familiars. But occasionally someone is able to get some pair that's really synergistic and draft enough support to be better, or has enough individually powerful bombs.

[DirkGently]

After getting more drafts in, I've seen a bit more variety but still suiting up an evasive dude seems to be one of the best strategies. Not every game has had voltron, but most have and have. It's no longer as dominant though as people have adjusted a bit and are more likely to gang up on voltron. Removal is certainly less efficient and prevalent than in normal commander, so that helps Voltron a lot. It's not bad compared to other draft environments, but it's weak enough to let Voltron be a strong strategy available to most color combos. A number of the commanders help support it pretty well, like the familiars. But occasionally someone is able to get some pair that's really synergistic and draft enough support to be better, or has enough individually powerful bombs.

Not bad? Holy cow, at common alone we've got:

• murder
• skywhaler's shot
• ancient animus
• aven surveyor
• run away together
• welding sparks
• stonefury
• spark harvest
• soul's fire
• portent of betrayal
• iona's judgment
• cage of hands
• fall from favor
• spontaneous mutation

And as far as hexproof, we've got:

• scaled behemoth
• dawnglade regent
• mask of avacyn

(note that they're all uncommon+)

Idk, I think if you're losing to voltron you're probably just not running enough removal. There's certainly no shortage of it available. Sure, it's mostly less efficient (though I believe I've run murder, ancient animus, cage of hands, and skywhalers in regular commander decks), but the equipment is waaaay less efficient. I'd say skywhaler's vs StP is a lot closer a comparison than haunted cloak vs jitte.

[onering]

Bro I draft plenty of removal when it's available. A lot of your examples just aren't good. They're better than many draft environments, because there's more available, but %$#% like Iona's Judgement isn't good. It's not hard to slap boosts on a cheap evasive commander and be able to recast it a few times. And unlike pirates or elves or some of the other archetypes it's pretty easy to put together as a back up plan and still have it perform even if you get pushed out of your initial plan.

[DirkGently]

In some draft environments, 5-mana flexible hard removal, even as a sorcery, has been really good. I agree that Iona's isn't great here, but that's just because of the insanely high quality of the other removal. I'd still say it's playable. I'm not unhappy if I'm running one in my deck if I don't have enough of the other 2 very powerful options, in that color alone, at common.

Murder has been format-defining when it's been at common. Skywhaler's was one of the best uncommons in its format, and now it's at common. Aven surveyor was a top-shelf common. Run away together is insane in a multiplayer format (and thanks to Scholar of the Ages, responsible for 2 of my 7 wins in this format). Ancient animus, amazing when you have commander access. Welding sparks, also very strong. It's a roll-call of powerful removal, way past what we've seen in any recent standard set several times over, imo. Sure, Ionas and stonefury are less great, and soul's fire, mutation, and portent are a bit deck dependent. All the rest are really good, though, and 3 of them can knock out a commander trying to go voltron on a pretty permanent basis. That, of course, in addition to the fact that the equipment in the set is pretty mediocre and voltron is always going to be a pretty slow strategy in multiplayer - I'm dubious that it's realistic to get to 1-shot damage (or even 2-shot in most cases). Maybe with the RW uncommon guy?

In fairness, I haven't really come across anyone actually try to go all-in on a voltron strategy, so maybe I'm underestimating it. From my drafts, though, it seems like there's a lot of more powerful and reliable things you could do. I'm curious how many drafts you've done, and how many have been won by voltron, because the dominance you're describing definitely doesn't match with my experience as a drafter or a player.

[onering]

In some draft environments, 5-mana flexible hard removal, even as a sorcery, has been really good. I agree that Iona's isn't great here, but that's just because of the insanely high quality of the other removal. I'd still say it's playable. I'm not unhappy if I'm running one in my deck if I don't have enough of the other 2 very powerful options, in that color alone, at common.

Murder has been format-defining when it's been at common. Skywhaler's was one of the best uncommons in its format, and now it's at common. Aven surveyor was a top-shelf common. Run away together is insane in a multiplayer format (and thanks to Scholar of the Ages, responsible for 2 of my 7 wins in this format). Ancient animus, amazing when you have commander access. Welding sparks, also very strong. It's a roll-call of powerful removal, way past what we've seen in any recent standard set several times over, imo. Sure, Ionas and stonefury are less great, and soul's fire, mutation, and portent are a bit deck dependent. All the rest are really good, though, and 3 of them can knock out a commander trying to go voltron on a pretty permanent basis. That, of course, in addition to the fact that the equipment in the set is pretty mediocre and voltron is always going to be a pretty slow strategy in multiplayer - I'm dubious that it's realistic to get to 1-shot damage (or even 2-shot in most cases). Maybe with the RW uncommon guy?

In fairness, I haven't really come across anyone actually try to go all-in on a voltron strategy, so maybe I'm underestimating it. From my drafts, though, it seems like there's a lot of more powerful and reliable things you could do. I'm curious how many drafts you've done, and how many have been won by voltron, because the dominance you're describing definitely doesn't match with my experience as a drafter or a player.

8 drafts so far, with 3 games per draft. Of the 24 games, 10 were won by voltron, 2 of those by me. In my first two drafts, Voltron won 4 out of 6 games, so it's definitely decreased since my first post, which I already said, with voltron only winning 6/18 down the stretch.

Of course, it's not like there was only one voltron deck at the table each game, so there was usually at least one voltron deck losing to the winning voltron deck. This is another reason voltron is better in this format than normal commander, as it's more likely that there isn't only one voltron deck you need to have answers for. And this is assuming you hold all your removal for voltron, when there are enough threats deserving of murder to go around. But while early on I was seeing about half the decks as Voltron and almost half the games being won by voltron, I've seen it go down to about a third of games being won by voltron and the number of voltron decks going down as well, with there usually only being one per game now instead of usually 2. It doesn't need to one shot to win, the format isn't as fast as normal commander. Other archetypes can be better, but from what I've seen their harder to put together as consistently, and it's not hard to just not get enough of what you need for it to better than just suiting up a commander with mid pack picks and swinging in.

[DirkGently]

But while early on I was seeing about half the decks as Voltron and almost half the games being won by voltron, I've seen it go down to about a third of games being won by voltron and the number of voltron decks going down as well, with there usually only being one per game now instead of usually 2.

I mean, that just sounds like the expected result? It sounds like maybe it is (or at least was) being overdrafted, but if its 1/2 the decks, 1/2 the wins seems like exactly what you'd expect.

I haven't had any trouble putting together archetypes, since there's so much overlap and I've rarely gotten cut once I found my niche. That and there are synergies like the aforementioned scholar + run away together which only require a few cards to be really strong. By contrast, I only really see one good voltron equipment at common and uncommon combined (hero's blade), with mask of memory being strong but not voltron focused. Pirate sword is fine for a pirate deck but unremarkable. Ancestral blade has been good in its 1v1 draft format, but pretty low-impact here. All the rest would be last-pick draft chaff in practically every format.

[Legend]

But America is too busy being "free" to realize how enslaved it is these days. But hey, ain't no telling me to put no mask on hur dur dur. God it's embarassing

What's embarrassing is millions of adults obediently wearing diapers on their faces and calling other people "enslaved".

Warning for spam. - cryo

[DirkGently]

What's embarrassing is millions of adults obediently wearing diapers on their faces and calling other people "enslaved".

-Medical professionals everywhere recommend wearing masks
-Other countries have success combating the virus with masks (hi from NZ)
-Wearing a mask is just clearly the responsible/kind thing to do to protect the vulnerable and it costs you basically nothing
...
"if you wear a mask you're a sheeple!"

Yeah ok. Great point.

I can kinda see the argument of keeping things moving economically since the impact is pretty severe (even if I think it's likely worse long-term), but wearing a mask is such a tiny inconvenience. The only counterargument seems to be "Yeah, well you can't MAKE me do the obviously responsible thing with a proven track record of success! I'll cut off my nose (and my grandmother's nose...and your grandmother's nose) to spite my face if I wanna!

...plus you guys look kinda dumb, so y'know...checkmate."

Warning for trolling - cryo

[onering]

But America is too busy being "free" to realize how enslaved it is these days. But hey, ain't no telling me to put no mask on hur dur dur. God it's embarassing

What's embarrassing is millions of adults obediently wearing diapers on their faces and calling other people "enslaved".

You're an embarrassment. A sad and tiresome collection of conspiratorial nonsense and unearned grievance attempting to establish a tissue paper thin veneer of manliness and intellectualism and failing even at that meager challenge.

Warning for flaming - cryo

[Legend]

But America is too busy being "free" to realize how enslaved it is these days. But hey, ain't no telling me to put no mask on hur dur dur. God it's embarassing

What's embarrassing is millions of adults obediently wearing diapers on their faces and calling other people "enslaved".

You're an embarrassment. A sad and tiresome collection of conspiratorial nonsense and unearned grievance attempting to establish a tissue paper thin veneer of manliness and intellectualism and failing even at that meager challenge.

So what you're saying is "OK Boomer"? LOL You're doing your best to sound like my kind aren't worth your time of day, yet here you are giving it to one of us. Why did you jump straight to ad hominem attacks anyways when you aren't even good at it? My manliness and intellect? LOL.
Seriously, despite my tit-for-tat, I don't even really want to argue about this. Yes, mandates are reducing our opportunities to draft paper Magic, but that isn't an excuse to insult those of us who don't want to wear mouth diapers, if not the entire(?) population of a country.

As for Commander draft, I've been too busy to draft it yet but plan to do so after New Years, in person at a friend's house, mouth diapers optional.

[onering]

What's embarrassing is millions of adults obediently wearing diapers on their faces and calling other people "enslaved".

You're an embarrassment. A sad and tiresome collection of conspiratorial nonsense and unearned grievance attempting to establish a tissue paper thin veneer of manliness and intellectualism and failing even at that meager challenge.

So what you're saying is "OK Boomer"? LOL You're doing your best to sound like my kind aren't worth your time of day, yet here you are giving it to one of us. Why did you jump straight to ad hominem attacks anyways when you aren't even good at it? My manliness and intellect? LOL.
Seriously, despite my tit-for-tat, I don't even really want to argue about this. Yes, mandates are reducing our opportunities to draft paper Magic, but that isn't an excuse to insult those of us who don't want to wear mouth diapers, if not the entire(?) population of a country.

As for Commander draft, I've been too busy to draft it yet but plan to do so after New Years, in person at a friend's house, mouth diapers optional.

Anyone who calls them mouth diapers is insulting the majority of the country. You aren't worth anything beyond ad hominem. It's not a debate, you're just a fool.

[kirkusjones]

On topic, my friend and I did a jumpstart-esque quick deck build from his Legends boxes. Tevesh Svat dominates games, especially 1v1. I won way more games than I should have thanks to the dirty worm.

[5colorsrainbow]

Ya I likely won't be able to draft this anytime soon. My hope is after all this wizards and/or a store not too far away will maybe do stuff once the world coughusacough can get the virus to not be a threat. If not hopefully commander legends boxes won't get too $$$ and me and friends could split a box to draft.

[cryogen]

Knock this %$#% off right now. Y'all all know it isn't allowed and should all have enough willpower to not get sucked into this topic.

[JWK]

On topic, my friend and I did a jumpstart-esque quick deck build from his Legends boxes. Tevesh Svat dominates games, especially 1v1. I won way more games than I should have thanks to the dirty worm.

1v1 Sealed Commander Legends is a lot of fun, but because of the sheer power of some of the cards in this set, things can really get out of control pretty quickly once one player starts to get an edge, much moreso than tends to be the case in standard-legal sets. In contrast, when playing it multiplayer, you can't put all of your pressure against one person while ignoring the others.

Also, the main factor that limits planeswalkers in EDH is how having multiple opponents tends to translate to them not lasting long, as three opponents will more easily have the resources necesary to deal with them via spell or simple attrition by attacking. Playing with this set 1v1 becomes more like standard 60 card constructed, where an unanswered planeswalker can easily take over the game.