Unreleased and New Card Discussion

[Hawk]

I anybody else really stumped on the flavour of Frodo, Sauron's Bane? Why does he have lifelink? Why does he make your opponents lose the game? Why is getting tempted by the ring a good thing? Why is he Orzhov? Did Wizards read the same LOTR that I did?

Honestly, come to think of it, this card would make so much more sense if it was Sauron, sure it would be weird for Sauron to be a one drop, but this card mechanically looks more like Sauron then Frodo.

It mostly makes sense to me if I squint. I at least get what they were going for. Broadly speaking, a Figure of Destiny design for Frodo is a cute idea given his role in the story.

Frodo at base is Frodo in Fellowship - a 1/2 dork to be protected who can do nothing but take on a dangerous journey.

Paying (w/b)(w/b) starts The Two Towers, and the Lifelink represents the way that one brave hobbit, somewhere in the wildnerness, keeps the scattered Fellowship fighting (spiritually "alive").

The black mana shows the increasing paranoia, depression, and darkness of Frodo's journey in Return of the King as he draws closer and closer to Mt. Doom and the burden grows stronger and stronger. We can't say if it's terribly flavorful or a total flavor fail until we actually know what this stupid gimmick mechanic is. I anticipate something with a Dungeon-like track of rewards (life, counters, treasures, cards) that ends in "You Lose the Game", which Frodo manages to dodge by instead turning it into a win with his ultimate resilience and heroism - where any other being would have given the win to Sauron by being corrupted by the ring, Frodo instead instantly defeats Sauron by casting it away. But if it's just like "Scry 1. You lose 1 life" then yeah, it's sorta dumb.

[Venedrex]

Well, the good news is, if you don't like this Frodo, we have at least one more.

[ukkuhrmakhai]

I anybody else really stumped on the flavour of Frodo, Sauron's Bane? Why does he have lifelink? Why does he make your opponents lose the game? Why is getting tempted by the ring a good thing? Why is he Orzhov? Did Wizards read the same LOTR that I did?

Honestly, come to think of it, this card would make so much more sense if it was Sauron, sure it would be weird for Sauron to be a one drop, but this card mechanically looks more like Sauron then Frodo.

Orzhov seems pretty natural for Frodo. White representing his struggle for the greater good and his membership in the fellowship and black representing the ongoing temptation of the ring.

LOTR is essentially the tale of Frodo agreeing to and ultimately succeeding in assassinating Sauron. Yes, he does this to protect middle earth but it really just boils down to "make sure Sauron dies by destroying the Ring." The flavor is basically Frodo going on a journey to cause your opponents downfall instead of you.

Lifelink is kind of awkward but no more so than it is on Serra Ascendant. It's just an easy way to represent "support"/"helping others" on an aggressive card.

Getting tempted by the ring must be a good thing (in the short term), otherwise it wouldn't , be , you know , tempting... You can't really represent temptation without
The Ring is never going to be good for any one (except Sauron) but it does help Gollum hunt and Bilbo escape.
Hopefully being tempted in game has similar effects where you get helpful bonuses but by the third tempting your hair falls out and after the fifth you no longer care about winning just keeping the one ring on the field as long as possible by stalling the game.

[toctheyounger]

LOTR is essentially the tale of Frodo agreeing to and ultimately succeeding in assassinating Sauron.

Honestly I really hope the tempt mechanic represents that it was a task that could not be fulfilled by virtually anyone. Ultimately, Frodo did fail. He succumbed to the ring in the end and had to live the rest of his life knowing that if Gollum had not attacked him in Mt Doom the fate of Middle Earth would be very different. Sam was a good enough friend never to say it, but they both knew. Even Gandalf and Elrond knew before they embarked from Rivendell the most likely outcome was that he would die trying or succumb to the ring. Regardless, the task was done, and they accomplished more than should ever have been asked of them.

[Dunadain]

I anybody else really stumped on the flavour of Frodo, Sauron's Bane? Why does he have lifelink? Why does he make your opponents lose the game? Why is getting tempted by the ring a good thing? Why is he Orzhov? Did Wizards read the same LOTR that I did?

Honestly, come to think of it, this card would make so much more sense if it was Sauron, sure it would be weird for Sauron to be a one drop, but this card mechanically looks more like Sauron then Frodo.

Orzhov seems pretty natural for Frodo. White representing his struggle for the greater good and his membership in the fellowship and black representing the ongoing temptation of the ring.

LOTR is essentially the tale of Frodo agreeing to and ultimately succeeding in assassinating Sauron. Yes, he does this to protect middle earth but it really just boils down to "make sure Sauron dies by destroying the Ring." The flavor is basically Frodo going on a journey to cause your opponents downfall instead of you.

Lifelink is kind of awkward but no more so than it is on Serra Ascendant. It's just an easy way to represent "support"/"helping others" on an aggressive card.

Getting tempted by the ring must be a good thing (in the short term), otherwise it wouldn't , be , you know , tempting... You can't really represent temptation without
The Ring is never going to be good for any one (except Sauron) but it does help Gollum hunt and Bilbo escape.
Hopefully being tempted in game has similar effects where you get helpful bonuses but by the third tempting your hair falls out and after the fifth you no longer care about winning just keeping the one ring on the field as long as possible by stalling the game.

I mean, I guess, but if I wanted to read into it THAT hard though, I feel like I'd come up with the opposite conclusion. Getting tempted by the ring ISN'T a good thing in the short term, at least not on this card, first 3 times you get tempted, nothing happens, and then the fourth time, something good happens, which is the exact opposite of what you're suggesting.

Make it so the first few times the ring tempts you, something good happens, then the fifth time the ring temps you, you sacrifice frodo or something (the fifth time he puts it on is when he ultimately succumbs in Mount Doom, right? I'm to lazy to double check).

[duducrash]

4 mana Elspeth was spoiled

Archangel Elspeth

Rad as hell angel with big ass sword

+1 create 1/1 token with lifelink
-2 put 2 +1 counters, creature becomes an angel and gains flying
-6 return all non lands mv 3 or from your gy to field
4 starting loyalty

[Mookie]

I've run Elspeth, Knight-Errant in the past. Archangel Elspeth looks like a reasonable upgrade, although I'm not sure where I would run her. The ultimate comes online faster, but a mass recursion effect requires some setup, particularly since it doesn't hit lands. Hmmmm...

[duducrash]

I've run Elspeth, Knight-Errant in the past. Archangel Elspeth looks like a reasonable upgrade, although I'm not sure where I would run her. The ultimate comes online faster, but a mass recursion effect requires some setup, particularly since it doesn't hit lands. Hmmmm...

I didn't give my opinion on her mostly because I didn't know on what to say. I have 2 decks that are somewhat interested in her. I have an UW superfriends deck that I'll have to check all possible PWs. But I'm not sure she is of much value there.

I think I might be interested in running her in Raffine, Scheming Seer but unsure. all abilities are relevant, the last one could bring many creatures back, and the other 2 are also good.

She does seem like she will be good in 60 card formats though

[NZB2323]

What a cool way to spoil the card. It was spoiled in today's story, which I'd recommend reading.

I currently run Elspeth, Knight-Errant in my Tymna the Weaver/Ravos, Soultender cleric tribal deck. Turn 3 Tymna, turn 4 Elspeth allows me to swing with a 5/5 flying lifelink Tymna, and I can cheat planeswalkers into play with Arena Rector, but I currently only run 2.(The other one is Sorin Markov.)

Now I have to decided if Archangel elspeth is better or if I want to run both. I'm mainly interested in the flying ability to time Tymna evasion. For the Knight it's a +1, and for the angel it's a -2, but permanent.

I'm not too interested in the ultimate, which isn't needed with Ravos, Soultender bringing my creatures back, and if I'm doing the -2 a lot giving my creatures flying I won't get close to the ultimate.

[duducrash]

That big sword isnt Luxior, Giada's Gift , is it?

[5colorsrainbow]

That big sword isnt Luxior, Giada's Gift , is it?

It's a facsimile of Godsend made by Elspeth own magic.

[DirkGently]

Original elspeth has a strictly worse first ability, usually-weaker second ability (but as a +1 instead of a -2), and a way stronger (but more expensive) ultimate. The new ult really doesn't seem worth building towards, consider that mass reanimation exists already at reasonable costs. The ult on the new one seems like it would only cost about 6 mana at most

The original was usually on the "poop out tokens until you ult" plan (assuming you weren't using doubling season or whatever to cheat) in EDH - sometimes using the second ability to go for lethal or push commander damage, but still working towards the ult. This one seems more likely to use a mix of +1s and -2s depending on what's going on, and fairly rarely going for the ult. It's probably a lot less likely to draw hate because its less of a ticking time bomb. If you aren't worried about the tokens or flyers it's not much of a threat.

I expect it to be okay in some white planeswalkery-tokeny strategies but it's definitely not amazing on its own.

[duducrash]

Wren and realmbreaker comes in and goes straight to 5 loyalty at 3 mv. I think its very good but im notoriously bad at this avaliation thing

[RedCheese]

I don't know about her in Commander. Where would she go? Her static is neat, but been in the color at the best of color fixing doesn't seem that useful Her +2 is nothing in our format. Her -2 is a worse regrowth and those type of cards aren't that popular. And she has a good ultimate but the same for most other walkers. So yeah, personally don't think she will see much in Commander, but i can see her in more competitive formats.

[Sporegorger_Dragon]

The original was usually on the "poop out tokens until you ult" plan

I think Elspeth would cry reading this.

I don't know about her in Commander. Where would she go?

She eventually becomes unlimited Muldrotha, so I'm guessing as 2nd-in-command in a Muldrotha deck.

[Lifeless]

So like Wrenn's identity as a character is that he's broken I guess.

[Venedrex]

Well, why write a compelling story when you can just use the plots of marvel movies.

Am I the only one who is laughing about how Wotc doesn't even bother to change the homework they copied?

Wrenn/Dr Strange opens up a portal to save Chandra/Iron Man from Elesh Norn/Thanos by bringing the entire nation of Zhalfir-Wakanda and Teferi/The Black Panther to save the day. While she is aided by Elspeth/Captain America who has returned from almost dying with an incredible and hitherto unseen power-Using Thor's Hammer.

I mean, I know good triumphs over evil is a tale as old as time, but this feels especially derivative.

And I mean, I like it from an objective standpoint. I liked it when I saw it in theaters all those years ago. It just feels like I'm watching Endgame again.

[NZB2323]

I don't know about her in Commander. Where would she go? Her static is neat, but been in the color at the best of color fixing doesn't seem that useful Her +2 is nothing in our format. Her -2 is a worse regrowth and those type of cards aren't that popular. And she has a good ultimate but the same for most other walkers. So yeah, personally don't think she will see much in Commander, but i can see her in more competitive formats.

Maybe element tribal with Omnath, Locus of All, Horde of Notions, or Omnath, Locus of Creation?

Other than that she seems good in The Gitrog Monster. Her -2 lets you draw a card with the TGM, if you put a land into your hand with the -2 that could be your 2nd land of the turn with TGM, which you can use for sacrifice for TGM. Also, if her +1 creature dies you can draw a card off of it with TGM.

I decided I'm going to cut Baleful Mastery for Archangel Elspeth. Giving +2/+2 and flying permanently to Tymna the Weaver is just so good for the deck on turn 4, and with Arena Rector I should have more than 2 planeswalkers. I'm always hesitant to cut removal, but the deck wants to be playing evasive creatures for Tymna, I'm not running this deck in cEDH where I need to worry about always having an answer for combos, and I think it has enough removal with:

• Path to exile
• Swords to plowshares
• Despark
• Anguished Unmaking
• Deadly Rollick
• Damn
• Winds of Abandon
• Cleansing Nova
• Austere Command
• Dawnbringer Cleric
• Leonin Relic-Warder
• Fiend Hunter
• Banisher Priest
• Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim
• Yawgmoth, Thran Physician
• Grave Pact
• Sorin Markov

And I don't run cards like Farewell because the 2nd commander is Ravos, Soultender, and I'd rather play a destruction boardwipe with a Selfless Spirit or Flawless Maneuver.

[Hermes_]

well almost infinite Omniscience

[NZB2323]

well almost infinite Omniscience

Repeatable Omniscience, repeatable Cyclonic Rift(but only for non-phyrexian creatures), repeatable draw, and ward 2 on a blue creature that has a ton of counterspells.

Seems really annoying to play against.

Edit: just saw you need 7 or more cards in hand to activate. I could play Neheb, the Worthy against this guy, and I guess he doesn't bounce Morophon, the Boundless.

[Hermes_]

well almost infinite Omniscience

Repeatable Omniscience, repeatable Cyclonic Rift(but only for non-phyrexian creatures), repeatable draw, and ward 2 on a blue creature that has a ton of counterspells.

Seems really annoying to play against.

Edit: just saw you need 7 or more cards in hand to activate. I could play Neheb, the Worthy against this guy, and I guess he doesn't bounce Morophon, the Boundless.

just keep your hand a mix of lands and counters and then no one will play with you lol

[Dunadain]

Such a cool card, but mono blue is the least interesting brew space imo, so I don't know where to put it XD.

And no, not on the little Timmy "counter spells are no fair" mentally, but mono U isn't actually a very good color for control, you don't have very good removal options and relying on counters alone never really works out.

[ukkuhrmakhai]

I assumed there would be a card named Wrenn and Eight but wizards just likes making me wrong.

As a card in EDH I don't think it will be particularly good standalone, but a 3 mana walker in green is always worth consideration especially when it can protect itself, draw cards and provide mana fixing. My initial reaction was "the abilities are too minor to matter in EDH and it doesn't seem like it scales well with support" but after thinking about I think it still won't do much as a standalone card but it has an acceptable floor and high ceiling and synergizes with cards that will be played anyway.

The static is nice for a five color deck but any deck with a fetchland mana base is going to have good enough mana to not want it purely for fixing. It is worth noting that this allows fetchlands to tap for mana without lifeloss or fetching so if you end up in a scenario where you can't spare the life or run out of fetch targets this can turn dead fetches into tappable lands.
+1 ability protects the walker and provides an attacker but opens a land to potentially being wrathed and a 3/3 without reach or evasion isn't great for attacking or defending. This does provide a solid set of keywords for a land you were making a creature anyway. If you were going to leave mana up anyway this isn't too bad. Any Jeskai Ascendancy or Twiddle deck wouldn't mind getting hexproof or haste.
-2 ability is going to hit something almost every time in any deck playing this. This can draw lands and threats so it's a decent draw ability if you need it.
-7 ability is a classic game winning emblem planeswalker ultimate but like most ults the question is how reasonable it will be to pull off. And this one is about easy as it gets. By itself it will ult after 4 activations which means if it comes down turn 2 with a mana dork it can go off turn 6 while protecting itself from random 1/1 and 2/2 attackers. Doubling Season/Vorinclex, Monstrous Raider is where it really shines though. It's one of the few 3 mana walkers to both have a powerful ultimate and be able to ult immediately if played while a doubler is out. It's also really very easy to get there with proliferate, Vorel of the Hull Clade etc.

TLDR:Cheapest Monogreen Walker to ult immediately with Doubling Season. Also isn't dead without ult providing draw, mana fixing and blockers if you are leaving mana up.

[NZB2323]

Such a cool card, but mono blue is the least interesting brew space imo, so I don't know where to put it XD.

And no, not on the little Timmy "counter spells are no fair" mentally, but mono U isn't actually a very good color for control, you don't have very good removal options and relying on counters alone never really works out.

I don't believe countspells are unfair, but I also believe playing against Jin-Gitaxias // The Great Synthesis would be really unfun. Do you really need removal when you're getting a one sided Evacuation every 3rd turn? And for removal blue does have some solid options:

• Pongify
• Rapid hybridization
• Reality shift
• Resculpt
• Cyclonic rift
• Treachery

It's not that I think this card is OP or unfair, it's that I could see someone playing it at a power level 7 game, playing a bunch of extra turns, and it being annoying.

[Dunadain]

Such a cool card, but mono blue is the least interesting brew space imo, so I don't know where to put it XD.

And no, not on the little Timmy "counter spells are no fair" mentally, but mono U isn't actually a very good color for control, you don't have very good removal options and relying on counters alone never really works out.

I don't believe countspells are unfair, but I also believe playing against Jin-Gitaxias // The Great Synthesis would be really unfun. Do you really need removal when you're getting a one sided Evacuation every 3rd turn? And for removal blue does have some solid options:

• Pongify
• Rapid hybridization
• Reality shift
• Resculpt
• Cyclonic rift
• Treachery

It's not that I think this card is OP or unfair, it's that I could see someone playing it at a power level 7 game, playing a bunch of extra turns, and it being annoying.

I think the list you put together speaks for itself XD. none of these scream premium removal, lol