Kykar, Wind's Fury - Spellslinger Tokens

[MeowZeDung]

I won't be running Divine Visitation in my list due to needing some cuts. And am somewhat on the fence on including Leyline of Anticipation, having flash for Breach is nice but from experience in my meta I don't think it will stick around long enough for that.

As powerful as Divine Visitation is, I think it is an excusable cut. It interferes with breach/inquiry and spirit mana in general, and can also turn off an on the spot win with The Locust God. I find that the engine cards that make tokens are usually stronger for me than DV.

Leyline of Anticipation is something I'm going to include for a trial period, but I'm not convinced it's necessary and may just get cut. It will certainly help breach nonsense, and it makes all my token engines and Ponder, Preordain, etc. effects better.

---

Speaking of inclusions/cuts, I wanted to lob a couple of cards out there for discussion. The thing about some cards in EDH is that most decks' jank is one specific deck's treasure, so I always keep an eye out for obscure or generally garbage cards that become great with the right synergy (and rarely find them). In this case, I had been thinking about how great Jeskai Ascendancy and Cathars' Crusade are in my list and how I might get some more redundancy with the "global prowess" effect. There's not much out there that does it, but these might be worth consideration:

• Soulblade Djinn
• Strongarm Monk
• Valor in Akros
• Goldnight Commander

Things I like include that these pump the team while playing non-creature spells and having tokens etb - which is what the deck wants to do anyhow - and one of these during a breach/inquiry loop plus a small handful of evasive tokens ends the game. Things I DON'T like include that these cost 4-5 mana and 3 out of 4 are creature spells.

Thoughts?

[Nimbaway]

Speaking of inclusions/cuts, I wanted to lob a couple of cards out there for discussion. The thing about some cards in EDH is that most decks' jank is one specific deck's treasure, so I always keep an eye out for obscure or generally garbage cards that become great with the right synergy (and rarely find them). In this case, I had been thinking about how great Jeskai Ascendancy and Cathars' Crusade are in my list and how I might get some more redundancy with the "global prowess" effect. There's not much out there that does it, but these might be worth consideration:

• Soulblade Djinn
• Strongarm Monk
• Valor in Akros
• Goldnight Commander

Things I like include that these pump the team while playing non-creature spells and having tokens etb - which is what the deck wants to do anyhow - and one of these during a breach/inquiry loop plus a small handful of evasive tokens ends the game. Things I DON'T like include that these cost 4-5 mana and 3 out of 4 are creature spells.

Thoughts?

Of those, I'd say Valor in Akros has the most potential of the four. Being a token deck running into wraths is a clear risk, it being an enchantment increases the likeliness of it sticking around. Though I'd see it more as a defensive play with an offensive upside, it turns a Ponder into flashing in several big creatures to block with. Offensively it works with Breach loops but only if you have existing tokens, since it does little for the tokens we create during the pumping since the deck lacks haste.

The effect can definitely be powerful, but to me personally also a pain to keep track off. Even more so with Crusade also on the field, as you have those counters and the temporary buff from one of these cards. I know how powerful Crusade is, but don't run it as it can be chaotic to keep track off. xD

----

A card I'm toying with myself is Arcane Adaptation. I mostly see it as a very slow mana rock though, as it does little early game but can start paying for things once you get to chaining a few spells through Underworld Breach or Past in Flames. Downside it does little the moment you play it and that the deck is rather color intensive when it comes to mana. So the red mana isn't always that useful but might go well with Nin,

[MeowZeDung]

Offensively it works with Breach loops but only if you have existing tokens, since it does little for the tokens we create during the pumping since the deck lacks haste.

Don't forget about the Locust god! Also, untapping with 3-4 fliers already in play due to pseudo haste from instants triggering token producers is pretty normal. Another reason to like Valor in Akros is that we can get double the triggers if we have another token generator or alongside Kykar, so it can be lethal fairly easily without the loop.

[Nimbaway]

Don't forget about the Locust god! Also, untapping with 3-4 fliers already in play due to pseudo haste from instants triggering token producers is pretty normal. Another reason to like Valor in Akros is that we can get double the triggers if we have another token generator or alongside Kykar, so it can be lethal fairly easily without the loop.

True, I did forget about Locust God, part due to the fact that I haven't gotten the card in yet. With both Valor and Crusade things would start swinging in hard indeed, so I could see the use of doubling up on the effect. I just wish it was easier to track these effects of these cards. xD

[MeowZeDung]

I've ordered the few cards I'm missing and settled on the update I'm going to make and, in theory, stick with for a while. The addition of the Breach combo gave me a lot to think about, and I didn't end up anywhere near where I started with my first list of potential changes, but I think this will work out well:

1/20/20

DecklistCMCManaPricesChartsDraw 7

OUT (12)

1 Myriad Landscape

1 Geier Reach Sanitarium

1 Mountain

1 Fire Diamond

1 Marble Diamond

1 Sky Diamond

1 Nin, The Pain Artist

1 Treasure Cruise

1 Dig Through Time

1 Mystic Retrieval

1 Eldrazi Monument

1 Visions of Beyond

IN (12)

1 Fiery Islet

1 Sunbaked Canyon

1 Celestial Colonnade

1 Fellwar Stone

1 Thought Vessel

1 Chromatic Lantern

1 Underworld Breach

1 Burning Inquiry

1 Brain Freeze

1 Sevinne's Reclamation

1 Valor in Akros

1 Idyllic Tutor

Approximate Total Cost:

Myriad Landscape → Fiery Islet - I've found landscape to be awkward every time I've had it in hand or played it, even though my basic count is high enough so it's not a brick. ETB tapped, only makes colorless, and it's too late to accelerate casting Kykar by the time I'm able to ramp with it. I'm happy to have acquired the canopy land and I think this is a strict upgrade.

Geier Reach Sanitarium → Sunbaked Canyon - Sanitarium was ok for emergency draws and incrementally setting up a delve spell or Past in Flames, but I'd rather have more duals than colorless group hug utility lands.

Mountain → Celestial Colonnade - Red mana is the easiest for the deck to come by for obvious reasons, so another UW dual is welcome even though it enters tapped. The added benefit of a 4/4 flyer that can help secure a win in conjunction with Jeskai Ascendancy and friends, or be a clutch blocker post board wipe, is also appealing.

3x Diamonds → Fellwar Stone, Thought Vessel, and Chromatic Lantern - The diamonds did the job of ramping into Kykar and providing colored mana just fine, but they were terrible mid to late game draws that didn't help keep a chain of spells going due to entering tapped. Fellwar and Vessel don't enter tapped, and are really just placeholders until I own an Arcane Signet and Talisman of Progress. Lantern doesn't help ramp into Kykar, but I think it will prove indispensable on turns where I am going off and white and/or blue mana is often the limiting factor.

Nin, The Pain Artist → Underworld Breach - I've already written a small novel about breach in the last week or two, so I won't belabor the point here. Nin didn't live in the list very long, but out she goes since Breach will now be the undisputed centerpiece of the deck's biggest source of card advantage. If I find that I still need more raw card draw instead of a bunch of cantrips, she'll probably come back in place of something. . . Vandalblast maybe? I dunno. Cuts are very hard at this point.

Treasure Cruise → Burning Inquiry - I'm sad to see an old friend go, but delve interferes with escaping anything beyond the breach/inquiry loop, which is just too explosive to pass up.

Dig Through Time → Brain Freeze - More bittersweet sentiments here for a beloved Khans draw spell, but the rationale is essentially the same. Freeze is monster card advantage in conjunction with breach and can also just win the game outright.

Mystic Retrieval → Sevinne's Reclamation - Yet another difficult cut. Mystic is great and enabled some powerful plays, but the reality is I have plenty of good spells to sling but am more tightly restricted on token engines and payoffs. I have no other recursion for permanents, and Sevinne's gets back Pyromancer, Mentor, Tremors, Bombardment, Ascendancy, Saheeli, Skullclamp, Sunforger, and any of my mana rocks, and it can do so up to 3x per game. I'm not fooling anyone though. . . the real reason it's being added is to get back Underworld Breach.

Eldrazi Monument → Valor in Akros - This is just a trial for the moment. It was going to be a trial for Leyline of Anticipation, but I've been playing the deck long enough to see Jeskai Ascendancy and Cathars' Crusade do filthy things, so I'm liking the idea of adding a bit more redundancy of a team prowess effect. The breach/inquiry loop made up my mind for me.

Visions of Beyond → Idyllic Tutor - Visions was great when it was just incidental value from my yard filling up naturally. However, now I have a whole new gameplan for the yard, and by the time it has 20+ cards in it I'm more than likely able to do something far more powerful than draw 3. We can just call Idyllic a placeholder for the Enlightened Tutor I hope to own someday, but it's certainly not a "bad" placeholder. It's main job will of course be to tutor up Underworld Breach, but it can also get Ascendancy, Valor, Visitation, Crusade, Procession, Tremors, or Bombardment. Not too shabby!

Time will tell with testing, but I think the list is really solid after this update. The current hole I don't like, which [mention]Nimbaway[/mention] mentioned earlier, is the lack of haste for an explosive game winning turn. I think pseudo haste from instant speed token production on an opponents end step + the Jeskai Ascendancy effects on my turn, or The Locust God + the breach/inquiry loop, will likely be enough. Even if they aren't, Impact Tremors and Goblin Bombardment help me cheat the system a bit. Failing all that, I still have Brain Freeze. If I still find myself falling short often enough, I can start looking at stuff like Mass Hysteria or Heroic Reinforcements.

I hope to get the card choice section of the OP updated accordingly in the next couple of weeks and then it might just be ready to apply for primer status. Any feedback is much appreciated! pssst. . . [mention]toctheyounger[/mention], I'm looking at you

[MeowZeDung]

True, I did forget about Locust God, part due to the fact that I haven't gotten the card in yet. With both Valor and Crusade things would start swinging in hard indeed, so I could see the use of doubling up on the effect. I just wish it was easier to track these effects of these cards. xD

Oh yeah, 100% with you on that. Ascendancy isn't too bad because you can just use a single d20 and keep a storm count for your total prowess triggers, and I think Valor will be similar since we aren't adding counters. Crusade is a mess if you trigger it more than 3-4 times in a turn. . . which I do regularly. I'm fortunate that my playgroup is fine with speeding the process up with some verbal shorthand and sometimes it just leads to on the spot concessions if there are not enough blockers or any interaction available. When that isn't the case, I just separate my newly created tokens into orderly piles with d20s tracking the counters, and I've gotten quite nimble with multiple d20 at a time! Still, huge pain.

[toctheyounger]

pssst. . . toctheyounger, I'm looking at you

I'll pm you shortly

[tstorm823]

. . . but then while I was searching my library for Chaos Warp I saw Mirrorweave. . . LULZ! I still had never resolved this thing and realized that I could just turn everything into Thundering Spineback with it, so I did! The dino gang smacked Drana for 96 damage and 0 Gishath triggers. From there it was just a matter of untapping for the turn and attacking with 3 Bird Illusions

That's a pretty darn good first Mirrorweave.

[toctheyounger]

-God bless all the individuals that recommended Mirrorweave. That was stupid and fun.

It is every damn time. One of those cards where the ceiling is only as high as you can dream

[Nimbaway]

Since we are likely to dump a fair bit of cards into the graveyard, I decided to include Anger in my list to have some access to haste. It might be a creature but in the deck it's pretty much free to play, so no need to keep up mana for it and it can last additional turns.

Not being too fond of keeping up with Crusade, I'm going to try running Valor in Akros over it instead.

[MeowZeDung]

Since we are likely to dump a fair bit of cards into the graveyard, I decided to include Anger in my list to have some access to haste. It might be a creature but in the deck it's pretty much free to play, so no need to keep up mana for it and it can last additional turns.

Not being too fond of keeping up with Crusade, I'm going to try running Valor in Akros over it instead.

Ah, Anger is a clever choice with breach/inquiry/freeze and if your manabase is similar to mine you should be ok on mountain density. Let me know how it goes!

[Nimbaway]

After going back and forth on several cards, I've finally settled on the 99 for my first few games with Kykar. Now it's just about waiting a few more days until all the cards are in and I can sleeve them up.

Kykar v1.0

DecklistCMCManaPricesChartsDraw 7

Commander

1 Kykar, Wind's Fury

Creatures (8)

1 Anger

1 Docent of Perfection

1 Monastery Mentor

1 Murmuring Mystic

1 Nin, the Pain Artist

1 Talrand, Sky Summoner

1 The Locust God

1 Young Pyromancer

Planeswalkers (1)

1 Saheeli, Sublime Artificer

Artifacts (12)

1 Azorius Signet

1 Boros Signet

1 Chromatic Lantern

1 Commander's Sphere

1 Fellwar Stone

1 Izzet Signet

1 Mind Stone

1 Skullclamp

1 Sol Ring

1 Sunforger

1 Talisman of Conviction

1 Talisman of Creativity

Enchantment (6)

1 Anointed Procession

1 Goblin Bombardment

1 Impact Tremors

1 Jeskai Ascendancy

1 Underworld Breach

1 Valor in Akros

Instants (24)

1 Boros Charm

1 Brain Freeze

1 Chaos Warp

1 Counterflux

1 Dovin's Veto

1 Electrodominance

1 Enlightened Tutor

1 Forsake the Worldly

1 Frantic Search

1 Generous Gift

1 Honor the Fallen

1 Mandate of Peace

1 Mirrorweave

1 Mission Briefing

1 Mystical Tutor

1 Narset's Reversal

1 Negate

1 Opt

1 Path to Exile

1 Pyroblast

1 Render Silent

1 Swords to Plowshares

1 Thrill of Possibility

1 Tragic Lesson

Sorceries (12)

1 Burning Inquiry

1 Cultural Exchange

1 Faithless Looting

1 Fumigate

1 Gamble

1 Hallowed Burial

1 Hour of Reckoning

1 Past in Flames

1 Ponder

1 Preordain

1 Role Reversal

1 Sevinne's Reclamation

Land (36)

1 Ash Barrens

1 Battlefield Forge

1 Buried Ruin

1 Cascade Bluffs

1 Cascading Cataracts

1 Clifftop Retreat

1 Command Tower

1 Emergence Zone

1 Evolving Wilds

1 Exotic Orchard

1 Field of the Dead

1 Fiery Islet

1 Flooded Strand

1 Glacial Fortress

1 Hall of Heliod's Generosity

1 Hallowed Fountain

1 Irrigated Farmland

1 Mystic Monastery

1 Prairie Stream

1 Reflecting Pool

1 Sacred Foundry

1 Shivan Reef

1 Skycloud Expanse

1 Steam Vents

1 Sulfur Falls

1 Terramorphic Expanse

4 Island

3 Mountain

3 Plains

Approximate Total Cost:

[MeowZeDung]

I like it. Just a few cards I'm curious about, but I'm on my phone atm and can't go in depth. Here's just a couple that stick out as potential traps:

• Negate
• Commander's Sphere
• Tragic Lesson
• Hallowed Burial

Excited to hear how narset's reversal and cultural exchange play out for you!

[toctheyounger]

I like it. Just a few cards I'm curious about, but I'm on my phone atm and can't go in depth. Here's just a couple that stick out as potential traps:

• Negate
• Commander's Sphere
• Tragic Lesson
• Hallowed Burial

Excited to hear how narset's reversal and cultural exchange play out for you!

FWIW, Narset's Reversal has been SUPER flexible in my Dralnu list. It's great for copying things you want from other people, upping your storm count, doubling down on High Tide and stealing ramp from green players :D I can recommend it for flexibility.

[Nimbaway]

I like it. Just a few cards I'm curious about, but I'm on my phone atm and can't go in depth. Here's just a couple that stick out as potential traps

Here's my reasoning for including those cards:

Negate - I needed the counters in my deck and the non-creature spell part I don't see too much of an issue. While regular Counterspell would be the better option to run for two mana, I opted for Negate since it doesn't require two blue mana making it easier to cast in a pinch with Kykar out.
Commander's Sphere - I had good experience running this with the tutors, since those put the card on top and this allows me to get it.
Tragic Lesson - Mostly in to facilitate draw, the pitching there can help me potentially get Anger in the deck. The bouncing isn't always that bad either; in the past I've used it to bounce a filter land, replay it and help provide additional fixing for spells.
Hallowed Burial - This is purely a wipe chosen based on my meta. I occasionally face aristocrat style decks and this has the potential of avoiding all the dying triggers.

[MeowZeDung]

FWIW, Narset's Reversal has been SUPER flexible in my Dralnu list. It's great for copying things you want from other people, upping your storm count, doubling down on High Tide and stealing ramp from green players :D I can recommend it for flexibility.

You run High Tide in a 3-color deck?!?! I like reversal, so even without high tide in the deck I'd be excited to see what it can do. If stealing ramp and powerful spells is something [mention]Nimbaway[/mention] is interested in, perhaps Reverberate is also worth considering? Sunforger fetchable and spirit mana compatible

Edit: I confused Dralnu with your esper zombie... Dralnu's 2-color, nvm lol

Here's my reasoning for including those cards:

Negate - I needed the counters in my deck and the non-creature spell part I don't see too much of an issue. While regular Counterspell would be the better option to run for two mana, I opted for Negate since it doesn't require two blue mana making it easier to cast in a pinch with Kykar out.
Commander's Sphere - I had good experience running this with the tutors, since those put the card on top and this allows me to get it.
Tragic Lesson - Mostly in to facilitate draw, the pitching there can help me potentially get Anger in the deck. The bouncing isn't always that bad either; in the past I've used it to bounce a filter land, replay it and help provide additional fixing for spells.
Hallowed Burial - This is purely a wipe chosen based on my meta. I occasionally face aristocrat style decks and this has the potential of avoiding all the dying triggers.

Negate - I don't think this is a horrible choice by any means, and a spirit can be sacced to make it a Swan Song without the downside, I just prefer my counters sunforger searchable and as unconditional as possible. For those reasons I prefer Absorb over negate or Dovin's Veto, although I did run veto for a while.

Commander's Sphere - Most of the time you'll be firing off mystical/enlightened tutor on an opponent's EOT, right? I don't think the draw will be a huge factor all that often (plus you do have mind stone and draw spells), but playing Kykar is critical every single game and T3 is obviously preferable. See how it performs, but I think you'll learn to love 1-2 mana rocks with Kykar.

Tragic Lesson - I see the benefits, but you'll be doing most of your pitching with Faithless Looting, Frantic Search, Burning Inquiry, and Brain Freeze, and the land shenanigans do require you to cast it on your turn and leave less mana up. If you are looking for a bit more card churn and yard filling, maybe Thought Scour fits the bill? Just a thought. Again, TL probably isn't "bad" for the deck.

Hallowed Burial - I just misread this tbh. If it suits your meta, sweet. Descend Upon the Sinful hoses aristocrats and provides some additional token upside. Also on the board wipe front: you're running this and Fumigate which aren't bad, and Hour of Reckoning which is a stone cold bomb, but do keep in mind a few of the other options out there which wouldn't take Kykar out. This thread sold me on Tragic Arrogance, and I've also had success with Time Wipe and Slaughter the Strong. Magmaquake is also great, but unfortunately takes some mana sinking to really shine.

Thrill of Possibility is a card others talked me out of. I ran it for a while and it was fine for me. I will say though, it gets better with copy effects because the additional cost doesn't have to get paid for with the copies. Perhaps more reason for Reverberate, Increasing Vengeance, or you could join the cool kids' club, abandon all fears, and run Bonus Round.

[toctheyounger]

You run High Tide in a 3-color deck?!?! I like reversal, so even without high tide in the deck I'd be excited to see what it can do. If stealing ramp and powerful spells is something @Nimbaway is interested in, perhaps Reverberate is also worth considering? Sunforger fetchable and spirit mana compatible

Edit: I confused Dralnu with your esper zombie... Dralnu's 2-color, nvm lol

Yeah, I don't think I'm THAT brave lol. Still, point is, it has a high variety of uses and lots of value for it's cost. It'd be well worth a try.

[tstorm823]

or you could join the cool kids' club, abandon all fears, and run Bonus Round.

What were you saying about Narset's Reversal?

[Nimbaway]

Commander's Sphere - Most of the time you'll be firing off mystical/enlightened tutor on an opponent's EOT, right? I don't think the draw will be a huge factor all that often (plus you do have mind stone and draw spells), but playing Kykar is critical every single game and T3 is obviously preferable. See how it performs, but I think you'll learn to love 1-2 mana rocks with Kykar.

Most of the time this is the case, but there are also the times I just need to dig for that counter and get it off the top of your deck without wasting mana. Of course, there is also Sunforger that helps out with those situations, but I've had positive experiences with Sphere in the past and it provides all colors of mana which is a plus. Additionally, I don't have other rocks available to me at the moment, most are tied up in other decks and Monastery Mentor was expensive enough to get xD. So right now this feels like a decent option to me and if need be I can always upgrade it later on.

Hallowed Burial - I just misread this tbh. If it suits your meta, sweet. Descend Upon the Sinful hoses aristocrats and provides some additional token upside. Also on the board wipe front: you're running this and Fumigate which aren't bad, and Hour of Reckoning which is a stone cold bomb, but do keep in mind a few of the other options out there which wouldn't take Kykar out. This thread sold me on Tragic Arrogance, and I've also had success with Time Wipe and Slaughter the Strong. Magmaquake is also great, but unfortunately takes some mana sinking to really shine.

Hallowed and Fumigate are both meta choices for me at the moment. I still have to see how Hour of Reckoning plays out, as I do face other decks that run tokens. If it disappoints I'll likely switch to one of the other wipes.

Magmaquake I'll be less likely to add, as with cards like those I prefer to send some damage to my opponents as well. Descend I don't like either, the deck only runs a few creatures and I prefer not to exile them.

Thrill of Possibility is a card others talked me out of. I ran it for a while and it was fine for me. I will say though, it gets better with copy effects because the additional cost doesn't have to get paid for with the copies. Perhaps more reason for Reverberate, Increasing Vengeance, or you could join the cool kids' club, abandon all fears, and run Bonus Round.

My main reason to add Thrill is simply because I wanted a red instant card draw spell in the deck, since with Kykar there is the potential to cast it for 'free'. Sure, there is the discard but with Breach that's less of an issue. Other then that it lets me dig, can drop down a few surprise blockers and also hose a Toxic Deluge. That said I could see me easily change it down the road, but wanted to give the card a go.

I have considered Bonus Round, but have left it in the maybe pile for now. Right now my aim is to familiarize myself with piloting the deck and the Breach loop. Also, since I'm running slightly more counters in the deck, Bonus Round has slightly less benefit as it doesn't provide additional cast triggers.

Reverberate might end up being an option down the line, so I'll add that to my maybe list. Increasing Vengeance not so much, the potential extra copy sounds nice but not being able to target my opponent's spells I consider to be a bit of a downside on that card.

[MeowZeDung]

or you could join the cool kids' club, abandon all fears, and run Bonus Round.

What were you saying about Narset's Reversal?

This made me chuckle. Honestly, I would run reversal if it wasn't double blue. U/W mana is really at a premium in the deck, which is why I included chromatic lantern despite it being a 3cmc rock. I only get away with stuff like absorb and counterflux because of sunforger. Still, I'm willing to be persuaded to include it, but I have no idea what I'd cut for it at this point.

I still have to see how Hour of Reckoning plays out, as I do face other decks that run tokens. If it disappoints I'll likely switch to one of the other wipes.

Oh, just you wait until the first time you convoke it out for free with a jeskai ascendancy on board Plus, because of the ascendancy pump effects, your tokens will generally be better than other token decks, except for ghired or on omnath maybe, but yours will be flying and theirs won't.

[tstorm823]

This made me chuckle. Honestly, I would run reversal if it wasn't double blue. U/W mana is really at a premium in the deck, which is why I included chromatic lantern despite it being a 3cmc rock. I only get away with stuff like absorb and counterflux because of sunforger. Still, I'm willing to be persuaded to include it, but I have no idea what I'd cut for it at this point.

To be fair, I've been trying to figure out why I dismissed the card myself. I remember liking it conceptually and then deciding I couldn't play it in Zedruu. It could have been that I don't really run counterspells, but I've long made the concession on bouncing to hand, which made me suspect I couldn't run it because it combo'd with 2 other cards ad violated the 4-card Zedruu rule, and I spent like an hour of dwelling before realizing Bonus Round was actually the problem. Have 9 mana available, Bonus Round, play Turnabout, copy Turnabout, play Narset's Reversal, copy Narset's Reversal targeting the original, bounce Narset's Reversal copying Narset's Reversal targeting the original Turnabout, both spells are back in hand and the copy of Turnabout untaps my lands to repeat. But I don't think that does violate my rules, because 3-card infinite mana with no spout doesn't do anything. So you may have put Narset's Reversal on my short list of considerations...

At any rate, if I were trying to persuade you into any of those cards, it would be Turnabout, the card that situationally impersonates Twiddle, Fog, Seething Song, High Tide, Unwinding Clock, Sleep, or Masako the Humorless depending on your needs. It's still 2 blue and can't be Sunforgered, but it's 2 blue that replaces itself.

[MeowZeDung]

At any rate, if I were trying to persuade you into any of those cards, it would be Turnabout, the card that situationally impersonates Twiddle, Fog, Seething Song, High Tide, Unwinding Clock, Sleep, or Masako the Humorless depending on your needs. It's still 2 blue and can't be Sunforgered, but it's 2 blue that replaces itself.

Yeah, turnabout is a house. I always knew I'd run it in an enchantment heavy build to go with opposition, Kyren negotiations, intruder alarm, and jeskai ascendancy, but you make a good case for it even apart from that.

Now you've given me more to think about with the turnabout/reversal/bonus combo. The infinite mana is nice and all, but that's infinite storm too. I'll have to think about it. I'm not sure I want to go that route with this list, but it's good to know about.

[tstorm823]

Yeah, turnabout is a house. I always knew I'd run it in an enchantment heavy build to go with opposition, Kyren negotiations, intruder alarm, and jeskai ascendancy, but you make a good case for it even apart from that.

Now you've given me more to think about with the turnabout/reversal/bonus combo. The infinite mana is nice and all, but that's infinite storm too. I'll have to think about it. I'm not sure I want to go that route with this list, but it's good to know about.

Man, Kyren Negotiations is one of those cards that's just so close to awesome. If that could hit creatures, it'd be bonkers. I imagine you could kill people with it.

Also, forgot to mention about Turnabout: 1 free storm count.

[Nimbaway]

Man, Kyren Negotiations is one of those cards that's just so close to awesome. If that could hit creatures, it'd be bonkers. I imagine you could kill people with it.

Closest you'll probably get is Walking Ballista and running Cathars' Crusade, Breach loop to put counters on it and deal damage that way.

[MeowZeDung]

Man, Kyren Negotiations is one of those cards that's just so close to awesome. If that could hit creatures, it'd be bonkers. I imagine you could kill people with it.

Closest you'll probably get is Walking Ballista and running Cathars' Crusade, Breach loop to put counters on it and deal damage that way.

KN, alarm/ascendancy + breach loops gets there.

Or infinite mana from turnabout/bonus/reversal + ballista on cast OR in play + ascendancy/alarm. (edit:nvm, it's hangarback that taps, not ballista.) Triskelion and some sac/recursion loop also does it after generating infinite mana. You could also run the new Heliod since we are in white.

I'll never stop saying it: There are SO many sweet ways to build around kykar.