MTGNexus

I just finished a great game where the Feather used this on 9 tokens they had from Assemble the Legion, so significant self-ramp is possible; why should green be the only colour with ludicrous amounts of mana?

As for the attacking clause of Settle the Wreckage, my perspective is coloured by my use of Aetherize and Aetherspouts in my Kefnet list. There are two key aspects to utilising these cards well.
The first is that you need to be able to consistently hold up the mana to cast the card, which usually requires a mana sink or other way to utilise this mana should you decide against using it. Otherwise, the tempo loss over the turns will cause you to fall behind to the point that Wrath of God is the more appropriate card anyway. (In Kefnet, the god himself is the mana sink).
The second aspect is that it does not hit attacking creatures. This may seem almost stupidly obvious, but you will end up with times where the creature you need to remove is not attacking, significantly devaluing the card. Simply, Settle the Wreckage is combat protection, not a board wipe, and should be treated as such in deck building, much as I do with Aetherize and Aetherspouts in Kefnet.

I really wanted to like settle, as a non-targeted exile spell, but I think the best-case condition is a bit too rare. Generally either it's going to be:

-they attack with 1-2 large threats, and I guess it's kind of OK but targeted removal would have been more reliable
-they attack with a huge board of small tokens and you ramp them a lot which is scary
-they attack with a craterhoof board or something, in which case a fog variant would have been cheaper and not ramped them

I'll confess I've not played it much, but I've played Aetherspouts and it's a card that you really have to get lucky to get great value from. On top of that, in this case great value can be a downside since it helps them rebuild.

@3drinks as far as PTE, I think the main thing is not to use it unnecessarily in multiplayer. Hitting some random value dude on turn 3? Wouldn't recommend it, even a good value dude. Hitting a combo piece? Well, I'd rather not ramp them, but I like it a lot better than losing. Is it as good as swords? No, certainly not. But it's still damn good. Only needing 1 mana up AND exiling is not to be missed. And if they have a way to protect it, they don't even get the land. You only pay for it if you succeed in permanently disabling the threat (or if it goes to the CZ ofc).

I haven't used winds of abandon. But the main place I'd use it is Phelddagrif and he doesn't give a rat's ass about his own creatures. So it's almost strictly worse than final judgment. Especially since he cares about the long, long, long game, where thinning their deck of basics is very likely to matter.

Myllior wrote: ↑

4 years ago

Simply, Settle the Wreckage is combat protection, not a board wipe, and should be treated as such in deck building, much as I do with Aetherize and Aetherspouts in Kefnet.

Which is great, because Fogs and combat tricks are both more interesting and neglected compared to board wipes.

Settle the Wreckage
Wow, a lot of people potty mouthing this card. I've used it, like it, would recommend it. All these comparisons to board wipes miss the point - the exile is what is attractive. I suppose this could be a meta call, but many games I play see creatures come back again and again from the yard. This card has performed well most of the times I've played it. Oh and I agree with the responses here that Path to Exile is good in commander.

Let's be clear: What makes Path good is removing key creatures. This likely won't do that. (Those creatures won't usually attack unless that's their thing. But a basic land here, a small to medium-sized vanilla token there, some life, fine to be rid of a key card. And in this format, exile is usually permanent.

I will say, I have used Winds of Abandon followed by Armageddon. My opponents just laughed at just how I got them to participate in their own demise.

@Rumpy5897 @DirkGently

Perhaps I'm spoiled in Mardu. I always have such a dearth of removal options that, if I'm taking in a drawback as significant as giving you +1 turn of mana development, I had better be hitting any permanent. There's so much good, strong, and especially potent removal that Path isn't ever gonna make the cut until about the eighteenth spot removal choice.

3drinks wrote: ↑

4 years ago

Rumpy5897 DirkGently

Perhaps I'm spoiled in Mardu. I always have such a dearth of removal options that, if I'm taking in a drawback as significant as giving you +1 turn of mana development, I had better be hitting any permanent. There's so much good, strong, and especially potent removal that Path isn't ever gonna make the cut until about the eighteenth spot removal choice.

Wat?

What's your better removal option at 1 cmc? There's narrow stuff like fatal push and lightning bolt, or stuff with setup like murderous cut and tragic slip, but even with all that setup/restrictions, those don't exile.

I mean, in a super slow, casual meta I could see running anguished unmaking, chaos warp, oblation, even utter end over pte for the flexibility - MAAAAAYBE - but if you're playing anywhere in the same zip code as competitive, 1 cmc is going to beat those 100% of the time. If anything, I think mardu puts you at a disadvantage since you don't have access to some strong 1-cmc blue answers.

I'm genuinely curious which cards you'd put about PTE, because outside of STP I can't really think of much in mardu that could realistically be considered better.

I suspect the problem is that you're not the kind of player who can resist using removal on some random mentor the meek, ramunap excavator, oracle of mul daya, etc, and that's not what you're trying to kill with PTE - or frankly, which you should be trying to kill with anything except a board wipe or an ability. PTE is for killing combo pieces and absolutely-must-answer threats without sacrificing mana efficiency or going shields down - which is generally what removal is best at. Giving your opponent some minor advantage is of little consequence in those circumstances.

Friday, April 10th, 2020; Niv-Mizzer, the Firemind



I know everyone is all about the new ones, but how does the OG still stand up today? Obviously he still combos like a sudden fart.

DirkGently wrote: ↑

4 years ago

I suspect the problem is that you're not the kind of player who can resist using removal on some random mentor the meek, ramunap excavator, oracle of mul daya, etc, and that's not what you're trying to kill with PTE - or frankly, which you should be trying to kill with anything except a board wipe or an ability. PTE is for killing combo pieces and absolutely-must-answer threats without sacrificing mana efficiency or going shields down - which is generally what removal is best at. Giving your opponent some minor advantage is of little consequence in those circumstances.

You're not wrong, I will jump on the chance to bolt the bird, or deny anything that I know will get you that long term advantage over time. And if I can do that with my Fire Imp or K. Command, instead of giving you a land, then I'm going to do just that.

Niv-Mizzer, the Firemind was the bane of LGS tables back in the day, but nowadays... alas... he didn't survive the power creep that good...

cheonice wrote: ↑

4 years ago

Niv-Mizzer, the Firemind was the bane of LGS tables back in the day, but nowadays... alas... he didn't survive the power creep that good...

Nothing survives the inevitable Golos meta, haha.

Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind is still fine, but not amazing. Combos with Curiosity, but beyond that, I'd say there are more impactful things you can do for six mana - Niv doesn't do anything until you start drawing cards, which will usually take a full turn cycle. There are some things you can do with haste / untap effects, but at that point, you're competing with Arcanis, the Omnipotent. Plus Consecrated Sphinx is a thing.

I'd say that the printing of Niv-Mizzet, Parun has largely pushed Niv 1.0 out of the spotlight - you get the same card draw → damage trigger, but Niv 3.0 is significantly better at drawing cards (and triggers off your opponents' attempts to remove him). Lots of synergy with Izzet's frequent spellslinger tendencies.

I will say that Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius is also pretty sweet - can draw even more cards that either of the other versions, assuming you have a lot of mana to sink into him. Also somewhat better at being aggressive, since he triggers off combat damage too (opposed to Niv 1.0 having the awkward 'tap ability vs attacking with evasive beater' dilemma).

I'll run all 3 nivs in a wheel deck. Any draw heavy izzet build like Jhoira, Weatherlight Captain, Arjun, the shifting flame, Nekuzar, or the new rielle, the everwise and shabraz/brallin can make them effectively into board wipes and win cons.

I personally despise the curiosity combos, because they aren't fun to win with or against. 0% interesting play pattern.

I don't think firemind is worth it as a commander anymore, except as flavor or a pet deck or nostalgia. Parun has taken its place imo. Dracogenius is the least powerful of the 3 as a commander, but the activated ability is great.

Tl;Dr very playable, but only as top end in specific strategies imo

3drinks wrote: ↑

4 years ago

Nothing survives the inevitable Golos meta, haha.

Man, how true this is. It's crazy to me, almost every deck I have built winds up better as Golos, including all the mono colored decks I have ever built

I'm resisting the temptation for Lands and sticking to maelstrom wanderer, but he's functionally just a worse Golos in my build.

I really wish they would stop with these super powered 5c legends like him and Kenrith.

pokken wrote: ↑

4 years ago

3drinks wrote: ↑

4 years ago

Nothing survives the inevitable Golos meta, haha.

Man, how true this is. It's crazy to me, almost every deck I have built winds up better as Golos, including all the mono colored decks I have ever built

I'm resisting the temptation for Lands and sticking to maelstrom wanderer, but he's functionally just a worse Golos in my build.

I really wish they would stop with these super powered 5c legends like him and Kenrith.

It's really because there's no good way of dealing with him. Can't let him sit and cast extra spells. Can't just kill and let them get more lands. Awful, awful design.

3drinks wrote: ↑

4 years ago

It's really because there's no good way of dealing with him. Can't let him sit and cast extra spells. Can't just kill and let them get more lands. Awful, awful design.

It's tough for me to agree with cos I have 5 golos decks, but it makes me enjoy mono-colors like nothing else. Even though it's still not really fair

Still goes infinite with Curiosity. The first two are easier on Nekusar tham the third.

Saturday, April 11th, 2020; sensei's divining top



This should make for a lively discussion, ha. Me? I've moved away from this mana sink, despite always playing max fetches to make the most from it. Among other shuffles. I just am of the belief that the format has evolved and shaped up past the times where every deck had to have a Top. Of course your deck wont be "bad" just because you play it...it's just................slow.

*raises flame shield* 👀👀

3drinks wrote: ↑

4 years ago

Saturday, April 11th, 2020; sensei's divining top

This should make for a lively discussion, ha. Me? I've moved away from this mana sink, despite always playing max fetches to make the most from it. Among other shuffles. I just am of the belief that the format has evolved and shaped up past the times where every deck had to have a Top. Of course your deck wont be "bad" just because you play it...it's just................slow.

*raises flame shield* 👀👀

What, don't you want to go back to the days of the Sensei's Divining Top/Rhystic Study/Mind's Eye dance?

Pay 1 for top
Did you pay 1 for that?
I pay 1 for that.
I pay 1 to top
Tap top to draw
Pay 1 to draw with you
Pay one to draw with you
Pay 1 for top
Did you pay 1 for that?
I don't pay 1 for that
I draw a card
I pay 1 to draw with you

Nah, that's perfectly understandable. I run this in all of one deck (Daxos), despite fielding fetchlands in all multi-colour builds. That deck is slow as all hell and often has bits of spare mana to sink into this, trying to fish up big mana or other choice nuggets in between all the fetch-related shuffling. It's fantastic there, and the various topdeck editors help smooth out the game and double up as craziness if Bolas Rock comes out to play.

I remember how back in 2014 a guy told me to run this in my mono-colour Purph deck. It honestly wasn't stellar, and I wasn't willing to cough up for fetches to get some modicum of shuffling prowess. The guy knew what he was doing on the whole, he was advocating for Death's Shadow quite a while before it caught on in Modern, but it just shows the zeitgeist of inefficient utility and the shadows of battlecruiser on everything.

I've wanted to run it in Sharuum for ages, but still waiting for a reprint to bring the price down. It's a pretty solid target for a Trinket Mage / Artificer's Intuition package. Admittedly, I don't have a suite of fetchlands to abuse it, but still seems worth testing, at least.

As for other decks... I only saw it rarely for a long time in my old meta, which was pretty casual - there was definitely a reputation of Top being an obnoxious card, so people didn't really run it. I've seen it more frequently in my new, more cutthroat meta.... almost always alongside Elsha of the Infinite, but also alongside Kykar, Wind's Fury (or, occasionally, both).

In a vacuum, it's fairly close to Mirri's Guile - you get to rearrange the top cards of your deck, which is mildly useful, but goes down in value the more you do it. Eventually, you're going to end up with three lands or useless cards on top. Hence why it's usually played alongside a plethora of shuffle effects. Still, if you want a topdeck manipulation engine for Maelstrom Wanderer or Oracle of Mul Daya, it's possibly the best one available - the only real competition I can think of is Scroll Rack.

I remember when people used to k-grip my top. Lol...

I think it's a card that has historically suffered from what I'll call the "jitte effect": when a card is powerful in a tournament format, and thus people freak out about it in commander even when it's not that exciting in the larger scale of commander. Top can give you incremental advantage by filtering your cards a bit, but all of that is kind of for naught when someone else draws 15 cards in a turn.

Anyway it's a fine card, I don't think really any deck is made worse by it. I think arguably its biggest downside is that people think it's better than it is. Plus anything that monopolizes the clock can make you seem like the threat. Order your cards quickly imo, and do it while other people are busy instead of always EOT, especially if you've enough mana to activate twice.

My fondest memory of SDT is a 60-card Tribal Legacy deck - Chimera Thrumming Stone. It was bonkers there, since when you find more than one, the Stone makes the engine sing.

In EDH, I've rarely used SDT, mostly because I play nearly exclusively on MTGO, and the triggers there are really annoying (auto-yields fall away when it becomes a new object each time it is cast). Also, as only 1 of 99, it loses a lot of its 60-card efficacy.

However, I do have one deck where it can shine in EDH. I have it in my Sydri deck (along with Powerstone Shard) where I make all the artifact tokens (via Mirrorworks,various Saheeli effects, etc.). Having 2-3 copies on the board so you can filter, maybe shuffle, filter again, draw when you want (either "sacrificing" a token or using the card and recasting to make more token(s)) really makes it more versatile.

Re: Fetches - it is my experience that people tend to forget things like Terramorphic Expanse that also provide your "needed" shuffle. There are quite a few effects in this range for any desk, even without going into "mana-base-costs-more-than-rest-of-deck" land. Not to mention Transmute and other similar effects that can also provide a similar function.

It only occured to me the other day that this would probably be pretty solid in my Virtus and Gorm deck, since it's got a face-down subtheme and thus manifests a fair amount. With Mystic Forge in play it also becomes 'draw X where X is the mana you have' which is pretty cool.

Dragonlover

It's still good. It's incremental advantage but it's cheap. It makes top of library tutors better. It allows you to dodge mill if need be. It protects itself. It has synergy with draw doublers. It has top of library synergy.

The key is not constantly activating it. It's fine to let a couple turns go without pumping Mana into it. Don't use the draw ability unless you absolutely need to or you have a synergy. Paying 1 for card selection each turn round is fine, you can play it without significantly slowing the game down, even online, you just have to be responsible.