MTGNexus

folding_music wrote: ↑

4 years ago

They should have printed one of these for War of the Spark =P

The Elderspell?

I hate how oppressive these cards are. The prevalence of Apocalypse Chime has made homelands cards basically unplayable.

So if I ran a version from another set, it's safe? Or does a printing in the set make all other versions legal targets?

DirkGently wrote: ↑

4 years ago

I hate how oppressive these cards are. The prevalence of Apocalypse Chime has made homelands cards basically unplayable.

Yeah! They needed to print one of these for Fallen Empires, I really gotta hold those Brassclaw Orcs decks in check!

But Wizards won't do it because they're too chicken to hose the greatest set of all time 🙄

Apocalypse Chime should have been errata'd to destroy all cards from Apocalypse, too.

not-a-cube wrote: ↑

4 years ago

So if I ran a version from another set, it's safe? Or does a printing in the set make all other versions legal targets?

Tournament Magic doesn't differentiate between printings, so all of these have Oracle text that updates it to "cards originally printed in x expansion"

3drinks wrote: ↑

4 years ago

Friday, July 3rd, 2020, Apocalypse Chime

These are pretty unplayable. Obligatory World-Bottling Kit mention.

It's funny that Sylex is an on-and-off sideboard card in Vintage (destroys all Mishra's Workshops), but for the most part, I think these are poorly thought out.

I think the design intent was for these early expansions to have a 'safety valve'; if there was ever a broken something that came out of an expansion, there would be a blanket counter. This is kind of bad design, but it's bad design I think is cute.

My Reveka Wizard Savant deck hates this. Thankfully I've never seen anyone play it

Also, a bit off topic inspired by the list of top 5 cards from the expansions, but Spectral Bears is pretty nice in Ayula. Being a 3/3 for 2 actually matters when it comes to being used to fight. It was also actually solid in standard when it came out, as it features in an aggro deck built as a meta answer to necro decks during black summer. Because against necro decks it was a 3/3 for two with almost no drawback, which was insane at the time, and hitting necro decks early and hard to make the life payment matter was essential.

The only thing I know about chime is the joke abut how bad homelands was....

Saturday, July 4th, 2020; Claws of Gix



Claws is interesting as one of the few cards that can sac any permanent card, with a cost as low as you can get. Edhrec suggests it's in 1580 of 386548 decks, a number I find to be too low given everybody wants to sac something at some point. Even i am woefully under representing in my own decks that feature precisely zero copies of it. I even own a sweet USG version for Trynn & Silvar.

So, why does this card not get the play it should rightfully receive?

Claws of Gix is a sweet card. It's one of the few sacrifice outlets that can be fetched by Trinket Mage. While it isn't free to activate, it is free to cast, which can also have some relevant upside if you're running an Eggs deck with Jhoira, Weatherlight Captain or Teshar, Ancestor's Apostle. You can also fetch it off Tolaria West, although if you're planning to sacrifice artifacts or lands you could instead grab Phyrexia's Core or High Market.

However, I'd say that the main reason that Claws doesn't see that much play is its lack of specialization. If you want to sacrifice creatures, Ashnod's Altar or another free sacrifice outlet is better. Krark-Clan Ironworks is a better artifact sacrifice outlet, and Zuran Orb is better for eating lands. That said, planeswalkers don't have any other options... although I'm not aware of any good payoffs for killing off your planeswalkers anyway, and most of them can self-sacrifice using a negative loyalty ability.

The other card type that doesn't have a lot of options for a sacrifice outlet is enchantments. Not a ton of payoffs there either, but Hatching Plans and Femeref Enchantress are things. I'd consider Claws if I wanted to enable them. I think I'd usually pass otherwise though, in favor of a more specialized sac outlet.

I always wanted more Femeref Enchantress effects. That enchantress build would use the best Vessels and Fonts and, if we ever got an enchantment that ate other enchantments for minor effect, the Ordeal cycle. Would have a white recursion package to bring smaller permanents back to the field.

Anyway, I echo Mookie's points on Claws.

In addition to what's already been said, Gix is only free to cast. If I'm paying mana to sacrifice things, I wanna be getting some solid benefit out of doing so, not just 1 life. I'd rather pay 3 up front and have a free sacrifice outlet like the altars than pay 0 up front, but end up paying way more in total over the course of the game. And as Mookie went over, there's much better free sacrifice outlets for basically every other card type, excluding Planeswalkers and maybe enchantment (there's a handful of free sacrifice an enchantment cards, mostly atogs and Faith Healer, but nothing I'd call great). So unless you're all in on sacrificing a variety of types of cards, there's typically a better option to be found.

There are some edge cases here it's pretty good - if theft effects of multiple permanent types are rampant for example. Back in the day we played a lot of sac outlets in EDH because theft effects were a common way to deal with commanders, and Claws has some advantages of stopping theft of enchantments, artifacts and creatures all on one card.

I don't play it but I've definitely considered it in a few decks. I imagine it'd probably be best in a deck like Kethis, the Hidden Hand where you have a ton of different things you might like to reuse/protect from shenanigans but not at a rapid rate.

pokken wrote: ↑

4 years ago

There are some edge cases here it's pretty good - if theft effects of multiple permanent types are rampant for example. Back in the day we played a lot of sac outlets in EDH because theft effects were a common way to deal with commanders, and Claws has some advantages of stopping theft of enchantments, artifacts and creatures all on one card.

I don't play it but I've definitely considered it in a few decks. I imagine it'd probably be best in a deck like Kethis, the Hidden Hand where you have a ton of different things you might like to reuse/protect from shenanigans but not at a rapid rate.

This is exactly where it shines. It's not more efficient than ashnod's, but it is more efficient in deck slots for multiple sac needs. I should be playing this in Kari Zev anyway, since I can't do anything with 2 on the end of combat step. And I'd make that swap if I had an altar in that deck.

It's also very nice having a sac outlet you can get off Trinket Mage if you're that kinda derp (and I am )

I ran claws in Jhoira, Weatherlight Captain, but only because it was a cheerio. Ages ago I think I ran it in Ghave, Guru of Spores, but it eventually got cut. Turns out to activate is too much when there are free sac outlets like Ashnod's Altar, Carrion Feeder, Viscera Seer, Martyr's Cause, Spawning Pit, Goblin Bombardment, etc. I always felt like I should be getting something significant out of the deal if I'm paying mana to sac something, as with Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord, Skullclamp, Ghave, Guru of Spores, etc.

Claws of Gix has been considered in some of my lifegain focused decks (with Well of Lost Dreams it becomes 2, sac sumthin: gain 1 life, draw) but unless you realy need a lot of outlets or you are all in on lifegain - gaining life is one of he least useful sac outlet versions.

Sinis wrote: ↑

4 years ago

I think the design intent was for these early expansions to have a 'safety valve'; if there was ever a broken something that came out of an expansion, there would be a blanket counter. This is kind of bad design, but it's bad design I think is cute.

As I recall from that era (Pre-Ice Age), Magic wasn't always an "all in" experience. Even Type 1 and Type 2 were ill-defined and not always well known. IIRC, the whole reason Ice Age originally had basic lands and such a large set side was because it was meant to be played entirely separately (or at least able to be played entirely separately). Digressions aside, I recall in college people would ask "are we playing with Legends" (or insert hard-to-find expansion here) which was one of the reasons for the Expansion Hate cards. I started in Legends and ran Golgothian Sylex because it was one of the only Antiquities cards I owned; but there were a lot of rich decks I faced in the early 90s and I could knock out a dozen cards with sylex in an FFA or Star game between classes.

Sunday, July 5th, 2020; Archetype of Endurance



Team wide hexproof is big, but idk...that cost. Is it worth?

I've seen it played, and I've played it myself. In terms of pure board impact, Archetype of Endurance is pretty negligible - it doesn't generate card advantage or provide a particularly impressive body. What it does do is make your team immune to targeted removal, which varies in value based on your meta - I've been in some metas with tons of board wipes that this would be mediocre in, but if your meta is heavy on spot removal, it gets better. Throw in Avacyn, Angel of Hope (and possibly Sigarda, Host of Herons) and you'll have a board state that is incredibly difficult to get rid of short of Merciless Eviction or Cyclonic Rift. I'd say it is a decent budget fatty - easy to replace, but a solid choice if limited to commons and uncommons for some reason.

I'd say the biggest strike against it is, of course, the mana cost - 8 mana is a ton when compared to Asceticism (or Heroic Intervention). It's less significant if you're cheating it out.... but at that point, there are more impressive things to cheat out instead... ...although looking on EDHREC, the #1 synergy card for Archetype is Conflux, followed by a bunch of Ultimatums, which is... not something I would have guessed. I guess people are cheating it out with Golos, Tireless Pilgrim and Jodah, Archmage Eternal? Hmmmm.... I won't say that Archetype is a bad card to cheat out, but it really feels like there are better things to do.

I'll also call out that Archetype is an enchantment, which makes it slightly more valuable to enchantress decks and also more vulnerable to Bane of Progress effects. My experience is that adding extra card types is usually a downside if you don't have intentional synergies with those card types though.

....shutting off opponents' hexproof is also sometimes relevant if you particularly want to mess with an opposing Narset, Enlightened Master deck.

I guess it could arguably generate virtual card advantage by encouraging your opponents to throw removal at each other instead of you, which is nice. I suspect most decks run more spot removal than board wipes, so shutting off half of your opponents' answers is pretty nice. Archetype is also pretty tricky to remove, since it has hexproof itself.

I will always remember the time my buddy triumphantly tooth and nailed for this and avacyn and sent the board at me and I overloaded rift.

I generally think that trying to set up unassailable board states is an exercise in futility. I don't even play lightning greaves anymore. Go ahead and kill my stuff. If you wanna kill it I'm winning and I'm not just gonna throw it out there without a plan.

I basically never play do nothing crap like this or asceticism or what not anymore. I'll play avacyn if I'm blowing up all the lands and that's about it.

3drinks wrote: ↑

4 years ago

Sunday, July 5th, 2020; Archetype of Endurance
Team wide hexproof is big, but idk...that cost. Is it worth?

I play this card when I'm running something like Eureka and Myojin of Life's Web, where you're making a big play and you want some protection for the crowd. I think it's probably also be worth it in something like Karametra, God of Harvests where mana is less of an object (though, Shalai, Voice of Plenty...)

So, conditionally it's totes worth it.

@pokken I think I agree. Funny enough, I think hexproof and indestructible often attract more attention than they're worth. People (myself included) can get very antsy when they see you're assembling something they can't interact with, and start conspiring against you even if the actual power level of what you have this exact moment isn't that impressive. Not always, ofc, but frequently.

Incidentally, I'll be testing this theory a bit tonight with my otrimi deck based around Elusive Tormentor // Insidious Mist.

But in general, definitely agree that having a plan and finding your window is way better protection than trying to assemble some impenetrable board state.

As far as this card specifically, 8 is a lot and realistically you usually won't have that many things get targeted. Fine, your llanowar elves has hexproof, nobody was targeting him anyway. Something like greaves is a lot better for efficiency, even if it's less impenetrable. Costs 2 and comes with haste instead of a big dumb body that'll probably just get wrathed away anyhoo. You don't need it to be impenetrable, you just need it to be impenetrable enough to win.

Monday, July 6th, 2020; Kindred Boon



At first, I spun the random wheel into Darksteel Sentinel. I thought about this, the merits of an indestructible beatstick with flash that can both punch through on offense and tank up for you, as well as ulteriour uses where you defend yourself in Nin, the Pain Artist that you can also get a measure of synergy out of.

But, I spun again, and I think this card is much more interesting with more varied, lively discussion, no? So what's up? Pass or fail? (I'm not linking the whole kindred cycle as they're all quite different, both in function and mechanics).