MTGNexus

Horde of Notions is sweet - there are a lot of excellent elementals to recur with it. It does face a bit of competition from a few other Elemental commanders, but easy access to recursion for them is pretty nice, and works particularly well with evoke creatures like Mulldrifter and Shriekmaw, and a few of the changeling spells like Crib Swap. Excellent design, especially in the context of the very tribal Lorwyn block, but elementals are a common enough tribe that it plays well with cards outside the block too. I'll call out Maelstrom Wanderer explicitly, since Horde lets you actually cast the card.

I will note that Ashes of the Fallen and Conspiracy let you turn every creature in your graveyard into an elemental, which has some interesting implications.

That said, it has definitely been power creeped by Kenrith, the Returned King - same cost to recur things, similar access to trample and haste, and also does a pile of other things. Having keywords natively does make Horde a bit better as a standalone voltron commander, at least. As others have mentioned, Horde also works really well with Jegantha, the Wellspring (unlike Kenrith). Does cut off access to stuff like Omnath, Locus of Rage and Baleful Force, but it also helps cast Horde and account for its mana-hungriness.

I've had a number of HoN decks, and IMO the recursion ability should be thought of as a scalpel more than a bludgeon. Five CMC for a 5/5 with V/T/H isn't too far behind power creep. That's still a decent value, and to consider that value lowered because the activated ability is expensive seems like a disservice to the card to me. Obviously, if you plan to build only around his activated ability he is a bit outclassed (and was years ago too). But just as a consideration of worthiness in the command zone, having access to an instant speed 5 mana GY toolbox isn't a bad thing. There are plenty of ways to cheat the cost (Jegantha aps, Chromatic Orrery, Manascape Refractor shenanigans, Prismatic Geoscape, etc., et. al.) and plenty of ways to (ab)use the ability. I've found him plenty viable, not just in Tribal Elemental, but heading a landfall theme, Man-Lands theme, Domain theme, Sneak Attack/evoke theme (play with haste/sac effects, paired with ball lightning type critters), etc.

Thursday, December 3rd, 2020; Wildfire Eternal



I'm a fan of free casting spells, so.....

3drinks wrote: ↑

3 years ago

Thursday, December 3rd, 2020; Wildfire Eternal

I've played it a couple of times, but never gotten it to really work. It looks like it should be good on paper to me, but often the spells I have just aren't good enough, or have X in the cost, or they have some power 4 creature to value block it.

I've looked at the card a couple of times, and I get really excited when I first read it because I think it's going to say either your graveyard or defending player's graveyard, but it doesn't. It says from hand. And like Sinis said, often times, it just doesn't do enough, consistently enough. If I want to cast an expensive spell for free or on the cheap their are better ways.

3drinks wrote: ↑

3 years ago

Ugh, akward rare.
Best i could think of would be Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa+Krark, the Thumbless as a very lunatic build. Alternatively Jeska, Thrice Reborn as a more versatile option, i guess.

I have it in my list of possible options for Anax and Cymede. IIRC, the trigger happens after declaring blockers, but before damage, so it should work just right. It costs next to nothing, so I'll probably try it out. Once I figure out how to mitigate the deck's running-out-of-steam problem, that is.

Seems like a good curve into Zagras, Thief of Heartbeats.

An ability that triggers when something "attacks and isn't blocked" triggers in the declare blockers step after blockers are declared if (1) that creature is attacking and (2) no creatures are declared to block it. It will trigger even if that creature was put onto the battlefield attacking rather than having been declared as an attacker in the declare attackers step.

So it could work in Alesha, Who Smiles at Death if you want to try something other than the usual ETB entourage. I don't know what density of instants and sorceries you'd need to make it worth it, but it's probably not worth it.

The biggest issue with Wildfire Eternal is that it's primary mode of "evasion" is a large afflict number, which becomes pretty trivial in a format with double the life. Most players won't even worry about taking a 4 damage hit to block it, which means you need to invest resources into making it evasive, invest resources into having instants and sorceries worth casting for free in hand, and hope it survives... it's just too many hoops to be good.

I also like the idea of Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa, but would pair him with Vial Smasher the Fierce so that when you cast your free spell maybe it will be In Garruk's Wake and deal 9 damage too.

If you wanted redundancy, how many ways are there to cast free spells from your hand?

Wildfire Eternal is... interesting, but seems pretty clunky. I'll never entirely discount free spells, but this is an effect that is pretty difficult to build around - there aren't that many ways to cheat out spells, which makes it difficult to justify running a bunch of big spells... and if you don't have a bunch of big spells, then it's hard to justify running ways to cheat them out. This is also a bit awkward in that the sort of decks that run a bunch of ways to grant small creatures evasion don't seem likely to be running a lot of big stuff... and if you don't have a way to grant evasion, then people can just block it (1/4 isn't a very strong statline, and afflict 4 isn't that scary in EDH).

I will call out Break Through the Line and Subira, Tulzidi Caravanner as two cards that work well with it. There are a bunch of Goblin Tunneler effects, really, and stuff like Tetsuko Umezawa, Fugitive if you're willing to branch out into other colors. I suppose there's also the question of how expensive of a spell you have to cheat out for it to feel worth it - not many decks are going to be running a bunch big spells like Enter the Infinite, but even getting a free Fact or Fiction could be nice.

As far as punisher cards go, I like that you can force the more advantageous option with just a few common tools for evasion. I feel like if this becomes, "if it attacks, cast a free spell" consistently enough, it would be worth it in a vacuum.

Could cost cmc 3 though imo, but what do I know about balance.

Friday, December 4th, 2020; Capsize|mp2



And the #1 way to become archenemy goes to...........................................

It kinda shocks me that this card is good. 6 mana to bounce one thing is kind of a horrendous rate, plus it gets countered by any sac outlet or removal (or counterspell). I mean, obviously it can be good with infinite mana, but with anything short of that and it's honestly very inefficient.

I mean, I've had it be good, I've seen it be good. But still, on paper it kinda looks like crap.

3drinks wrote: ↑

3 years ago

Friday, December 4th, 2020; Capsize|mp2

And the #1 way to become archenemy goes to...........................................

I don't know if that's even true anymore, outside of Seedborn Muse but that's more on seedborn muse than capsize. Decks are just so much more streamlined now that your rarely have juicy Sheoldred, Whispering Ones to bounce. I was just playing a game and couldn't hold up Shattering Pulse in a low powered game on PlayEDH, holding up 6 mana for this is incredibly difficult. Also, once you figure out that Terminate the targeted creature to fizzle Capsize line of play it becomes way less of a bother. Finally the vast majority of decks run sacrifice outlets which just invalidate this thing.

I view this as a weak interaction card, that wins with infinite mana. It's got a pretty bad floor and the ceiling results in incredibly unfun play patterns. Do not want.

TL;DR: Just cast Sublime Epiphany instead.

Mostly agree with everything stated above. It was prime interaction when the format was slower and less optimized. Back when synergy was something part of your deck did, not the whole thing. Every deck played some goodstuff elements that made Clones, Dessertion, Bribery, and Capsize solid cards that would usually be relevant in any game. Now that just isn't the case and I don't play Capsize anywhere except for mono-blue, mostly for nostalgia, also I bought a foil...

Off topic, last time I cast Bribery, I went after the Kinnan, Bonder Prodigy ramp deck who was mana screwed. Turns out it was an elf tribal deck.... Yeah not the best use of 5 mana and a card.

It's still a legitimate win condition in with infinite mana.
But more importantly, it is amazing with Mizzix of the Izmagnus

I will also say that despite its mana cost, it overperforms. People know you have it, so it becomes a huge political tool

DirkGently wrote: ↑

3 years ago

It kinda shocks me that this card is good. 6 mana to bounce one thing is kind of a horrendous rate, plus it gets countered by any sac outlet or removal (or counterspell). I mean, obviously it can be good with infinite mana, but with anything short of that and it's honestly very inefficient.

I mean, I've had it be good, I've seen it be good. But still, on paper it kinda looks like crap.

I always see it out of every Tryhard Bant deck in conjunction with SoFaF, for the full on douchebag demoralization effect™. Typically bouncing lands like they thought they were clever....

Its probably been 6-8 years since I last saw someone cast Capsize. The buyback option of the card just isn't that manageable and I think curves of decks have improved a lot since then. Its still a mana dump outlet for infinite mana but I think there are better cards to use infinite mana with these days.

I think as time goes on, the inefficiency of this type of card gets highlighted more and more. Its better to draw more and run a lower curve than it is to try to do more with one card that costs too much.

For the longest time, I didn't own one of these. Now I finally do, and it's been underwhelming every time I've cast it. As noted, if you are playing "fair" this is just a really lousy rate compared to better bounce spells like Chain of Vapor, Echoing Truth, Into the Roil/Blink of an Eye, or the perennial favorite Cyclonic Rift. And besides Rift, those are sorta niche adds to decks that can't get their interaction quotient up high enough off of Rapid Hybridization, Pongify, Reality Shift, and Imprisoned in the Moon, counterspells, and whatever their other colors bring to the table - which basically is just mono-blue or some Simic decks.

I've tested it in a few spots, but I currently think it's in my box and not played anywhere. I prefer those cheaper bounce spells, counters, and real removal in Sai, Pir/Toothy, and Sygg, and this is against the ethos of Phelddagrif since it draws a ton of (inordinate, honestly) hate. As EDH has evolved, decks have become leaner and sleeker and more consistent and most end-game creatures have devastating EtB/LtB triggers that make bouncing them a losing proposition. As a result, random durdly goodstuff like this that is only good in the mondo late game world of 24 land on the battlefield just isn't good enough anymore, which I think limits this to "unfair" decks that generate infinite mana and want a wincon that can buy time in a pinch, or stormy decks like Mizzix of the Izmagnus that can get this down to just UU repeatedly to control the board.

I've played a lot of capsize over the years and I still like it. I don't really play it if I can't make infinite mana anymore though; it's a solid wincon with infinite mana that is also situationally decent.

I also like it pretty well in Seedborn Muse decks.

I played it in Ephara as a way to lock out a game once I had control with hatebears, as it is *way* stronger when each person can only cast one spell a turn due to Eidolon of Rhetoric or similar.

Yeah, I don't have a lot to add to the Capsize discussion. I've contemplated running it in my Mizzix of the Izmagnus deck, but haven't actually done so yet. It seems... sort of inefficient. If you're not going infinite, six mana is a very steep price to pay... and while Mizzix can bring that down to just UU, doing so would attract a lot of unwanted attention, without really advancing my own gameplan at all. I'll stick to Whispers of the Muse.

Still, it certainly can be a potent card if you have sufficient mana to play with. It doesn't scale particularly well into larger games, but it's very easy to lock someone out with it in 1v1. I also suspect that bounce effects are somewhat underutilized. It's on my shortlist if my meta ever starts running a bunch of Rule of Law effects. We have gotten a lot of new options since Capsize was originally printed though, so I'd probably give Crush of Tentacles or Flood of Tears a shot first.

Saturday, December 5th, 2020; Saskia the Unyielding|sld



Anyone still play this? Is it even good, or does it generate spite from players being consistently targeted and ostracized by it?

Saskia's got that awkward feature of some cards where she really hates on one player, but she can't easily update when the tides shift in the game. If the targeted player becomes an ally against someone else who's become a bigger problem - or if the targeted player dies - then she can either be useless or actively unhelpful. On the plus side, the other players usually have little reason to remove her, so she's sorta got reverse True-Name Nemesis protection unless you're the major archenemy.