MTGNexus

Yamero!
Honestly it's quite sad that the tokens don't have any tribal sinergy.

Tuesday, December 22nd, 2020; Slate of Ancestry|ons



How's this still hold up? Is it getting worse and worse as time goes on? Cause it looks like it's still a lot of cards from swarm tactics to me...

3drinks wrote: ↑

3 years ago

Tuesday, December 22nd, 2020; Slate of Ancestry

Caveat: I really, really like this card.

I think it's sometimes hard to justify against Shamanic Revelation and similar. How many times do you need to draw cards based on your board? And, is the discard significant? Is it worth it to pay 8 mana into this effect?

Even if you believe it's not worth it from those previous questions, it's an undeniably powerful effect at casual tables. I'll probably continue to run it in my (few) decks that really go wide.

One time I had this, a bunch of snakes, and a couple ways to untap it. An opponent played Thieves' Auction, and I was actually short on time before class, so I milled myself to death on purpose in response with a few activations of this. It was like turn 6.

seems great for mono-white go-wide strategy. For any other color combo, there are better draw options for 8 mana!!

I have never run this, but I have often considered it. I think it's become somewhat less viable with time, in part because many of the decks that would most benefit from this already include green, and green's draw options have gotten so much better in recent years. I currently run [Shamanic Revelation in 3 decks, and would absolutely run it before Slate every time, assuming I was in green. I wold also run Ohran Frostfang over this in any green deck.

I do think this potentially has value in non-green swarm decks, including white go-wide decks and goblin decks (other than Zada which has better options with cantrip spells).

I remember happily slamming this in 60 card "Cards I own" Magic in High School. It's a fun card, but it's veerrrrry slow. At 8 mana for the first activation, having to discard your hand first is rough.

If you are playing Blue, Green, and Black you have a long list of much better cards. Green has Shamanic Revelation, Ohran Frostfang, and Collective Unconscious if they are going wide nevermind the incremental value of something like a The Great Henge or Beast Whisperer and the generic value of good ol' Harmonize. Blue has Bident of Thassa/Reconnaissance Mission/Coastal Piracy if they are going wide as well as tribal effects like Kindred Discovery and Distant Melody and oh also all of their generically amazing draw spells. Black has its own array of generically great draw spells as well as some creature/tribal specific ones like Grim Haruspex, Midnight Reaper, Minions' Murmurs, Graveborn Muse. I'd be hard pressed to include this in any deck featuring any of the Sultai colors as a result.

This card is also slowly being edged out in red (and Boros) decks. Red are getting better and better "impulsive draw" and "rummage" spells every set; from the extremely borderline Act on Impulse and Wild Guess we've evolved to the infinitely better Light Up the Stage, Thrill of Possibility, Valakut Awakening // Valakut Stoneforge and Jeska's Will. Most creature-heavy Red decks also have a heavy token or goblin theme, meaning they can take advantage of stuff like Skullclamp or Goblin Ringleader for all their refilling needs. Red also have wheels, for those who can pay the $$$ for them, which fill a similar niche to this of dumping what's left of a bad hand to reload on a brand new one. This may occasionally be good in monored or Boros decks, especially go-wide ones that aren't goblin themed, but I'd say it is pretty medium.

That leaves monowhite - specifically a monowhite deck that either doesn't feel like they can milk enough value out of the 'clamps and Mentor of the Meek (and its inferior Bygone Bishop) or that feels like it needs more than those three cards to keep the cards flowing in a go-wide strategy. I think that's still plenty of decks, but I also suspect as time continues to go on that this will keep getting more and more marginal even in Monowhite.

Hmm, should I consider this for Zirda, the Dawnwaker? The decklist is very much in its infancy, but activation for 2 might be the push this little baby needs. Of course, the prime draw engine is going to be Diviner's Wand

Antis wrote: ↑

3 years ago

Hmm, should I consider this for Zirda, the Dawnwaker? The decklist is very much in its infancy, but activation for 2 might be the push this little baby needs. Of course, the prime draw engine is going to be Diviner's Wand

That's an interesting though. I'd still worry that even if this is reliably a draw 3+, discarding your hand is a significant drawback in Zirda that makes this a little questionable when the deck already gets to run War Room, Arch of Orazca, and Bonders' Enclave in the landslot + Arcane Encyclopedia, Staff of Domination, Bag of Holding, and the aforementioned Diviner's Wand as draw engine artifacts. That discard might be a benefit instead of a drawback though, if your deck is doing dumb stuff with Auriok Salvagers, Feldon of the Third Path, and Scrap Mastery. Definitely something to test!

Antis wrote: ↑

3 years ago

Hmm, should I consider this for Zirda, the Dawnwaker? The decklist is very much in its infancy, but activation for 2 might be the push this little baby needs. Of course, the prime draw engine is going to be Diviner's Wand

Zirda substantially cuts down the activation cost, which means you need fewer creatures out to make it worthwhile, and you get a really good cost for drawing if you have several creatures out, but it is still a bit expensive to cast in the first place.

Note also that Zirda cuts the cost of a lot of colorless draw sources, including lands like War Room , Arch of Orazca and Bonders' Enclave and artifacts like Mazemind Tome. These don't allow for the sort of burst draw Slate provides, but they also don't require you to dump your hand.

I used it years ago with some token decks. The problem for me is that generally speaking for the mana to cast and use it in one turn, you can get SOOOOOO many powerful finishers instead. As draw has gotten better as well as finishers I don't really see a lot of incentive to run this card anymore. Its incredibly slow if you don't intend to cast and use it in the same turn but at 8 mana to drop and use it, I just don't think its that great for a vast majority of decks these days.

The few places I did use it in the past tended to be mono W, mono R, or boros swarm decks.

I think it is a fun, casual, and niche addition to the right deck.

Dunharrow wrote: ↑

3 years ago

seems great for mono-white go-wide strategy. For any other color combo, there are better draw options for 8 mana!!

At the casual end of the spectrum, I've had good success with Slate of Ancestry in mono-brown Golems (which also features some artifact cost-reduction). I also added it one of my Gx Landfall decks (using Life from the Loam and/or Crucible of Worlds to get the lands back) when I found Path of Discovery was sometimes putting more lands in hand than I could play per turn. I found it worked very well with The Mending of Dominaria's third activation.

I also think it is somewhat unfair to think of this as an 8 mana draw spell, as it does not have to be activated the turn it is played, and it can be activated more than once. Of course it has to survive, but then there are often much more obvious targets for a random disenchant (or similar) and mass Artifact wipe does not seem to be nearly as common as Creature, or even Enchantment mass destruction.

Treamayne wrote: ↑

3 years ago

I also think it is somewhat unfair to think of this as an 8 mana draw spell, as it does not have to be activated the turn it is played, and it can be activated more than once. Of course it has to survive, but then there are often much more obvious targets for a random disenchant (or similar) and mass Artifact wipe does not seem to be nearly as common as Creature, or even Enchantment mass destruction.

Shatterstorm may not get played a lot, but with the rise of Collector Ouphe that would at least make me question it. I'd also not be surprised to see this be the second target on a Force of Vigor.

Of course, or Return to Dust, or Sylvan Reclamation, or what-have you.

I'm just saying that, in casual games, my experience has been those cards are rare (and things like Rack and Ruin almost non-existent); I'm far more likey to lose the slate to a random Austere Command; and the far more common non-mass removal (Disenchant, Return to Nature, Anguished Unmaking, etc.) often has a better target (sometimes another of my artifacts, such as Blinkmoth Urn, Bottled Cloister, KCI, etc.).

I have cast it and left it alone for a few turns and had it ignored, until I start activating it. And I usually get two-three activations from it before it dies in fire.

Wednesday, December 23rd, 2020; Paradox Haze



Besides Enduring Ideal, how much weight does this card really carry? And is it worth the $4?

The value of this all depends on how your deck is built. If you have a lot of upkeep effects (not counting most with cumulative upkeep, which tend to nonbo with this), this can obviously be pretty solid, but it's very much a buildaround effect. I would imagine it could be good in some Sultai decks, as those colors have lots of good upkeep effects. Cards like Phyrexian Arena and Awakening Zone become much better with this in play.

As to the monetary value, it's an old card that isn't very available, and has a very rare effect (does anything else other than that new Sphinx do anything like this), so if you want that effect, it's probably worth the cost.

This was a staple in old Sen Triplets decks. Nowadays, Damia, Ephara, Padeem and Zedruu all appreciate it.

This card is nowhere near good enough for Ephara, God of the Polis, not in a million years. It only gives one person an extra upkeep so it's basically a crappy situational Phyrexian Arena which is already a card getting cut.

The only decks I've seen use this are using it in such a way that it's a huge, huge threat. My buddy used it in his Braids, Conjurer Adept deck, and another friend used it in an enchantment deck chock full of huge upkeep triggers. I can't even remember the exact combo but it was ridiculous and made it public enemy #1.

If someone's playing it, much like other huge enchantment enablers (e..g. Doubling Season ) you can assume it's one of the most dangerous cards they play and treat it accordingly.

3drinks wrote: ↑

3 years ago

Wednesday, December 23rd, 2020; Paradox Haze

Besides Enduring Ideal, how much weight does this card really carry? And is it worth the $4?

Before M21, I used to joke that this was a "6th Kamigawa Shrine"

Realistically, it could be a staple in Zedruu since it's donatable and doubles your Zedruu gains. Outside that, I haven't found it to be all that exciting; the applications are surprisingly limited, and there are only a handful of cards that have beneficial upkeeps worth doubling at 2U. Basically Kamigawa/M21 Shrines, Sen Triplets, and Mirror-Sigil Sergeant. I'm sure there are others, but, that number of cards is probably quite few.

Zedruu ran this when i used that deck and so did Jhoira of the Ghitu,also ran it in Oloro, Ageless Ascetic

This card was so good in my wife's old Zedruu the Greathearted deck (in the "before DirkGently showed us the true power of politics" days) that I actually added a bunch of shrines to the deck to synergize (because this is also secretly the 6th shrine and in that deck was a fourth shrine with Clever Impersonator making five).

Zedruu and Sen are the obvious homes, but any Ux commander with an interesting upkeep trigger should take a look - Chisei, Heart of Oceans, Braids, Conjurer Adept, Ephara, God of the Polis, Oloro, Ageless Ascetic, Padeem, Consul of Innovation, Taigam, Sidisi's Hand, and The Scarab God all like a second upkeep, and Thassa, God of the Sea and Damia, Sage of Stone while less exciting can probably also find a use for it.

I can also see the argument for it in an enchant-menty deck with tokens (like maybe Alela?). True, doubling just a Phyrexian Arena or a Bitterblossom is meh - but doubling both is spicier, so the more cards in your deck that say "upkeep" the neater this is.

Because of the unique effect...I'm sure we'll get a legend that will break it sooner than later.

I was thinking about it with Oaths and Courts, but it is probably just win-more.

Serenade wrote: ↑

3 years ago

I was thinking about it with Oaths and Courts, but it is probably just win-more.

Which Oath?

Point taken about Courts, though. I had overlooked that synergy.

3drinks wrote: ↑

3 years ago

The only 3 commanders that i've seen having real success with it are Braids, Conjurer Adept, Sen Triplets and The Scarab God - none of which i particularily enjoy aside from Braids.

Speaking of Braids, combining Paradox Haze with Braid of Fire and a cool mana sink, like Grenzo, Dungeon Warden would be just my cup of tea.

Oath of Ghouls? I never liked that cycle since it could help opponents, but I know some people like those cards.