Unreleased and New Card Discussion

[folding_music]

this is how i felt about the western set but people just put me on ignore lol

[TheGildedGoose]

this is how i felt about the western set but people just put me on ignore lol

I love your posts on horror, but I would extend it further to any text. There's an oscillating reflexivity between the inspiration for a series of texts, the texts themselves, and the texts they influence. That is to say, the Western genre also has literary merit taken from American mythology and provides a structure to explore and critique any period of American society. The set was dumb and didn't utilize any of that, of course, but you take my point.

Gentrification would be a white card.

[DirkGently]

i see. did you watch Candyman and say, ah, this is about people afraid of being cut with knives giggle

edit: what i meant to say is that horror explores environments and systems by anthromorphosising their symptoms. fear of missing out as a metaphorical killer is totally at home in a horror setting cos its stuck in there alongside gentrification as a killer, peer pressure as a killer etc

A card game is a much more limited media to explore these sorts of statements than a narrative. You're saying the statement they're making is that FOMO is a metaphorical killer...because it's a gross-looking monster that can attack? So does that mean Endurance as a concept is also a metaphorical killer? Seems like a ton of things are killers when we're playing a game that involves attempting to kill your opponent. The tools available to a card game to express statements like these are incredibly blunt at best.

Just looking at the card, I'm sorry, but I don't see any deep statement on the nature of "FOMO" being expressed here. Call me media illiterate if you must. At most - and being very generous - it just looks like an attempt to recreate the concept, which we all understood just fine.

Which is about the most you can reasonably expect from a card. Do any of the UB cards deepen the characters from those franchises? I would that, at best, they provide a pale recreation of what already existed.

I could theoretically imagine designing an entire set with a pointed political message, but wotc are way too cowardly to do that. This is the marvel franchise of card games, the goal is to be as bland an inoffensive as possible.

[Dunadain]

I don't know, I didn't even put together fear of missing out equals FOMO until you guys brought it up, fear of missing out is a pretty universal human experience, definitely not something that goes out of style XD.
Like I feel like you're really under selling it @DirkGently, it's a lot more than just boohoo I didn't get to go to the concert with my friends, I remember having panic attacks thinking that the fact that I didn't hear about some event meant that people didn't like me, and we're just acting nice when I was around to be polite. And to be honest while I have a lot more self-esteem and confidence now than I did back in high school, I still wouldn't say I'm over it.

Now, does this magic card capture that feeling particularly well? Nah I wouldn't say so. But I also think there are plenty of other magic cards that fall short flavor-wise a lot worse than this card does.

Speaking more generally, I do think that this set is kind of stretching the concept of fantasy a bit, but an incarnation of fear is a lot more rooted and fantasy than a magical chainsaw or a magical TV or sneakers made with magic somehow. I'm not too excited for duskmore, but of the cards spoiled I think fear of missing out is is one of the more magic-feeling cards.

Chainsaw is like orders of magnitudes worse than fear of missing out.

[DirkGently]

I don't know, I didn't even put together fear of missing out equals FOMO until you guys brought it up, fear of missing out is a pretty universal human experience, definitely not something that goes out of style XD.

Yeah idk what to tell you on that one. It was a whole thing in 2012 or whatever. FOMO got added to the dictionary along with "twerk". Guess we'll have to wait a few more sets before we get a twerk card though.

Like imagine they made a card called "Rizz", that's what this card makes me feel. Has rizz (charisma) always been a thing? Sure. Could the concept exist on a card? Sure (and does). Is choosing to do it in the form of a meme cringe? Absolutely.

Synonym-ize one word of the name and it wouldn't bother me at all. But then people couldn't go "oh wow, it's like that thing! remember that thing!"

(Honestly remembering that FOMO, of all things, was a major topic back then has me nostalgic for a time when online discourse was at least slightly less psychotic. Doesn't make me like the card, though.)

Chainsaw is like orders of magnitudes worse than fear of missing out.

Tbf we have had chainsaws before. High-Rise Sawjack. Although that one looks mildly more fantastical.

[Dunadain]

Zada, Hedron Grinder and Feather, the Redeemed going nuts for Might of the Meek.

[5colorsrainbow]

My mom has a friend who father died of cancer. The friend missed the call of the nurses saying he had a sudden turn wouldn't have long and she didn't get there time to say goodbye. Now she won't go anywhere without her phone and won't even turn it on silence due to being afraid of similar stuff.

Def still leans into the meme aspect of it, but its that kind of stuff I was thinking on more. I agree naming it something better would have been better even if the card was meant to be FOMO at the start of design.

[materpillar]

I mean that was my point, the fantasy genre is big and it is limiting it to just say its only for certain time periods and tech levels. You can (dis)like any of the sub-genres but as you said still fantasy, just not the same type.

-shrugs- most literally scholars can't find a clear definitions of fantasy vs sci fi. Personally for me its if a setting has supernatural or fantastical/magical elements its fantasy, if it has "advanced technology" then its Sci fi and often things can be both. And the vibes. As MtG is a game all about using magic I'd say it's fantasy that sometimes has sci fi elements since each plane is its own sub-genre of fantasy.

I feel like you're defining fantasy so broadly that the word loses all meaning. Let me clarify my stance a little bit here since people seem vaguely engaged by that.

Fantasy for me requires some unspecified amount of other worldliness. Harry Potter is set in explicitly modern day but the emphasis of the books is about leaving modern muggle life and exploring the wizarding side of the world. So that feels like fantasy to me. In horror films Duskmorne seems to be referencing the setting is as close real life as possible but only a handful of changes have happened. IE a murder monster is walking around. The emphasis with horror here is on the similarities to reality not the differences.

Thus I don't define modern horror movies as fantasy (for the most part, there's so many horror movies) even if they have fantasy/magic elements in their settings. I don't consider Jaws to be fantasy because it has a supernaturally aggressive and intelligent shark. I don't consider the Halloween movies to be fantasy because of all the random lore magic lore around Jason. I don't consider Abigail to be fantasy because there's a handful of vampires in it. Thus Duskmorne doesn't feel at all like fantasy because the setting it is based on is literally "real life with slight supernatural tweaks".

Really not excited for can't get a cell phone signal and my car won't start.

this is how i felt about the western set but people just put me on ignore lol

I get that but "Westerns" mythology is America's equivalent to Europe's "King Arthur" mythology. So it kinda got a pass from me as still feeling fantasy enough.

Honest question: Do you consider Sword of Shannara or Dragonriders of Pern series fantasy? Both of those involve a similar setup of "this world used to be technologically advanced, but has been destroyed and left technological remnants behind" that Duskmourn is using.

Yes. But I define the setting by the world's current time period not its distant past. Currently Duskmourn feels like current day. Current Sword of Shannara (at least from what I remember of the first couple books) feels like the Middle Ages.

[folding_music]

fair enough! i underrate the importance of westerns because I find the american classics deadly dull. looking at Outlaws i was hoping for the wild bunch and bonnie & clyde and received uhhh shanghai noon
and its true that Fear of Missing Out as a card name feels too obvious, like they missed a step in design. that was a feature that really bugged me about Capenna: cards named as if by archetype and never given clarity by a good title

[Dragonlover]

Man, I love it when people know all 250-odd cards and exactly what a set looks like from this few previews. How about we wait until we've seen say, 50% of the set until we start decrying it's creative direction and how its the death knell of the game?

That said, personally I'm all for it. If MtG had stayed as 'classic fantasy/fantasy adjacent genre with some slight envelope pushing' I suspect I'd have got bored around 2015. Then again maybe I wouldn't, all the hoo-ha around Universes Beyond showed me that in a vacuum, all I really care about is the mechanical aspects of any given card, my immersion isn't being ruined by TVs in the art or Optimus Prime as a commander like some people feel.

Dragonlover

[onering]

What really gets me is that sets like this amp up the unseriousness of the flavor and lore. It cheapens it, waters it down, and makes it easier to just ignore the art, name, lore behind the cards, etc in favor of just caring purely about the mechanics.

Magic has become Multiversus. Smash Brothers style mashups have a place, but Magic was a game that actually had a pretty well defined and unique feel to it that has been thrown in the trash in favor of increasingly generic nonsense and licensed IPs, uninspired reference fests that are lazier than the most phojed in episode of Family Guy. Sure, you get your set of Western or modern horror references, and everything else becomes a little less interesting for being associated with it.

Hell, the goofy ass detective %$#% in Murders at Karlov Manor cheapened Ravnica. The 30s and 40s gumshoe plus Sherlock Holmes aesthetic was at odds with that well established and evocative setting and just made it sillier and hollow. And what's dumbest of all is that there is another plane, New Capenna, where that theme would have actually fit, both in terms of aesthetics and flavor. That's how incompetent creative has become.

People might think that it doesn't matter, that these sorts of creatively lazy pandering sets will just bring in new players who will stay, but long term losing the value of the core property hurts magic. It reduces it to raw mechanics and memes. And when the person drawn in to their favorite IP or world of hat doesn't see it again for years, of ever, are they going to stay? When there's no longer anything worthwhile about the core world you've built, you need to rely fully on the gameplay. And when there have been wild swings in the quality of that gameplay, that's a problem. Look at Commander straying further and further from what brought people to the format in the first place.

[Rumpy5897]

I realised I'm disillusioned with MTG from a flavour perspective a few years ago, and wrote it up in late 2020. I'm of the opinion that the current push for more modernised settings is a conscious attempt to get UB stuff to not stick out like a sore thumb. If you've got a Arc Spitter and a Chainsaw then whatever the Fallout stuff is up to won't feel out of place. I still wish UB never happened, but the cat's out of the bag now and it seems that it meshes very well with their growth-minded philosophy. It will be interesting to see if this translates to retention.

[BeneTleilax]

It's also going to get increasingly glaring that they won't have any actual guns in the game, as other modern technologies spread, because Guns Icky. I don't really care to get into the politics of gun control here, only the weird insistence of fantasy writers that repeating lighting cannons and gatling crossbows are perfectly feasible, but an arquebus would somehow irrevocably ruin the feel. The crossbows on Innistrad were cool and looked like objects that could feasibly be made and used, but I'm not looking forwards to the increasingly watergun-looking contraptions we're going to see as they try to be gritty and modern without getting cooties from looking like they know what black powder is.

[Dunadain]

Man, I love it when people know all 250-odd cards and exactly what a set looks like from this few previews. How about we wait until we've seen say, 50% of the set until we start decrying it's creative direction and how its the death knell of the game?

Yeah, how dare people go to the Unreleased and New Card Discussion thread to discuss unreleased and new cards XD.

The rest of the set might win me over, I hope it does, but I can't talk about cards that haven't been revealed yet.

[Dunadain]

It's also going to get increasingly glaring that they won't have any actual guns in the game, as other modern technologies spread, because Guns Icky. I don't really care to get into the politics of gun control here, only the weird insistence of fantasy writers that repeating lighting cannons and gatling crossbows are perfectly feasible, but an arquebus would somehow irrevocably ruin the feel. The crossbows on Innistrad were cool and looked like objects that could feasibly be made and used, but I'm not looking forwards to the increasingly watergun-looking contraptions we're going to see as they try to be gritty and modern without getting cooties from looking like they know what black powder is.

D&D went through a similar weird phase, where there were increasingly gimmicky looking ways to fire projectiles or magic at your enemies. Then they just embraced honest to goodness black powder muskets, some people are against them, and one of the big differences between a game like magic and a game like dungeons & dragons is that if you don't like something you can just not have it in your games, but by and large I and most people think they're totally fine, and honestly much cooler than the "wand guns" littered throughout the ga

I'm not saying magic should take a similar path, just something I've seen before.

[5colorsrainbow]

I feel like you're defining fantasy so broadly that the word loses all meaning. Let me clarify my stance a little bit here since people seem vaguely engaged by that.

Cause fantasy is pretty broad and vague. Also why I said vibes.

In this context I'd say a lot of horror movies don't have the supernatural elements as a huge focus* until you get your magic users/creatures/ghosts/demon stuff though many do have fanatical elements.

And so far it looks like Duskmourn takes those with fanatical elements, pumps them up and added stuff like elves, wizards, magic, ect that pushes into fantasy.

*while not a hard rule I do think most fantasy works the supernatural/magical/ect stuff is a main focus.

Anywho I feel like I kinda threw the thread off topic sum and not to plug myself in but here are threads in the lore section I think are better suited for these conversions;
viewtopic.php?t=300587
viewtopic.php?t=291575

Also bloomburrow thread as the stories come out this week
viewtopic.php?t=265376

(Even if you don't want to read the stories/articles, clicking on the story and article links that will be posted there are like ""viewers" for a tv show that the higher ups at WOTC use to gauge how much they should be funding creative. If you are worried about Mtg just becoming fully UB, clicking the links shows the higher ups people are interested aka its profitable, to keep Magics own IP around.)

[duducrash]

Maro's Bloomburrow Teaser
Before previews for Bloomburrow officially begin, I thought it would be fun to do another of my Duelist-style teasers where I give tiny hints of things to come. Note that I'm only giving you partial information.
First up, here are some things you can expect:
• A new mechanic which is a tweak on a mechanic from 2013
• "Destroy target creature" (a spell with only this rules text) gets a new mana cost
• A cycle of uncommon lands that each reference four creature types
• Counters in the set: +1/+1, blight, coin, finality, flood, flying, indestructible, loyalty, stash, stun, and supply
• A noncreature subtype makes its first return
• A ten-card cycle that acts as typal glue
• Two mechanics that came out in the same set return each part of a different two-color archetype
• The word "Squirrels" shows up four times in rules text
• A mythic cycle with a new symbol
• One of the cutest mechanics we've ever made
Next, here are some rules text that will be showing up on cards:
• "Create X tokens that are copies of target token you control."
• "If you control a Raccoon, you may discard a card."
• "Creatures your opponents control have base toughness 1."
• "Whenever one or more other creatures you control leave the battlefield without dying,"
• "if it's the first instant spell, the first sorcery spell, or the first Otter spell"
• "put a flood counter on target land."
• "where X is the number of creatures you opponents controlled that were exiled this turn."
• "for each other Squirrel and/or Food you control."
• "As long as there are four or more card types among cards exiled with CARDNAME,"
• "up to one target artifact, creature, or planeswalker an opponent controls loses all abilities until your next turn."
Here are some creature type lines from the set:
• Creature – Hamster Citizen
• Creature – Frog Advisor
• Creature – Skunk Assassin
• Creature – Raccoon Berserker
• Creature – Squirrel Warlock Bard
• Creature – Rabbit Mouse
• Legendary Creature – Badger Warrior
• Legendary Creature – Weasel Mercenary
• Legendary Creature – Elemental Elk
• Legendary Creature – Bird Dragon
Finally, here are some names in the set:
• Crumb and Get It
• Festivals of Embers
• Hop to It
• Kitnap
• Playful Shove
• Polliwallop
• Rabid Gnaw
• Shrike Force
• War Squeak
• Wishing Well
Tune-in to our official YouTube and Twitch channels (youtube.com/@mtg antwitch.tv/Magic and) at 9:00 am PT on Tuesday, July 9 as Bloomburrow previews begin

[Sporegorger_Dragon]

Crumb and Get It

Those of you who really didn't like FOMO, here's another card for you

A mythic cycle with a new symbol

This is the most interesting for me. A new kind of player counter?

[Mookie]

• Wishing Well

I initially read this as a Witching Well reprint. I'm sure that will cause zero confusion.

• "Destroy target creature" (a spell with only this rules text) gets a new mana cost

2b or not 2b, that is the question.

[Sporegorger_Dragon]

• "Destroy target creature" (a spell with only this rules text) gets a new mana cost

2b or not 2b, that is the question.

Actually, Hero's Downfall makes me think the new cost is 1{B}, to replace Terror.

[PrimevalCommander]

"Destroy Target Creature" with a new mana cost.

Unless they are doing a dramatic color pie bend, I don't think many will be too impressed by another black or white removal spell that doesn't exile unless it cost .

We already have 2 removal spells at uncommon that are pretty strong. And 3 removal spells with added flexibility/exile clauses. Unless this thing is mono green or mono red it's almost not worth hyping.

[folding_music]

pounce thud uwu
sorcery
destroy target creature teehee

[CommanderMaster999]

A noncreature subtype makes its first return

I think i know this one

i think its "Junk" type

in the gruul commander deck it mentions "Make Trash" and its only appearance is fallout so far

[duducrash]

• "Creatures your opponents control have base toughness 1."

Hope this is white or black. the old Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite and Kaervek, the Spiteful wipes with aristocrats will be brutal

[Dunadain]

• "Creatures your opponents control have base toughness 1."

Hope this is white or black. the old Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite and Kaervek, the Spiteful wipes with aristocrats will be brutal

Can we have a feature that's the opposite of thanking a post?