In response, I win.
Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2020 11:05 pm
A deck that fascinated me (back when I'd occasionally pretend to enjoy legacy) was Solidarity. For those who aren't familiar, it's a mono-blue deck built around High Tide and Reset, using storm to win with Brain Freeze. But what made it interesting was that, because everything was an instant, it could win in response to the opponent's attempt to win - which meant it could wait until the last possible second to do so, but also that failure to combo off meant certain death. I thought that idea was so interesting - your opponent is grinning over their imminent victory, only for you to snatch it from their fingertips. Talk about a great story!
Every once in a while I toy with the idea of doing something similar in commander. Reset + Reiterate is pretty easy to pull off, all you need is 7 mana worth of lands (and 8 total), with nearly any instant to finish the job. But then I think about it harder, and realize that it doesn't really make sense. Because the combo is infinite, there's not any value to waiting - you're not delaying to increase your odds by having more lands/cards before attempting to storm off (which could make the difference between success and failure in Solidarity). The only reason to delay, once you've got the combo, is either to wait for a tap-out, or...just for the surprise factor. Which seems rude, frankly. If I went for the win, only to find out that someone else had been sitting on the win for turns, with plenty of earlier tap-out opportunities, giggling to themselves about funny it was going to be to counter-win, I'd be pretty annoyed that they'd been wasting my time.
But I still like this idea, so the question becomes: what would justify waiting until the last possible second for a win? My main thoughts are:
-To increase the odds of success with a non-deterministic combo (like Solidarity).
-Because some on-board situation is necessary for it to work which requires an opponent in a winning position.
The former seems difficult - of course I'm aware that people build storm decks, but all the ones I've seen played are very much sorcery-speed, usually with a lot of free artifacts and whatnot. That could still work with something like Raff Capashen, Ship's Mage, but I'm really not a fan of non-deterministic combos since they generally take forever to resolve. Still, put a pin in that since it's a potentially interesting idea.
The second option is kinda close to other decks I've seen, that use cards like Rakdos Charm and Deflecting Palm to redirect a loss into a win. But that got me thinking - how many different ways to win are there that would need to be "countered"? And which colors would be necessary?
Infinite creatures/go wide - Rakdos Charm
One (or more) very big creature(s) - Deflecting Palm, Backlash, Agonizing Demise, grab the reins, other threaten effects at sorcery speed.
A large (but not super large) number of large (but not super large) creatures - Reins of Power, Insurrection (+ fog if necessary beforehand)
Mill - Laboratory Maniac, Thassa's Oracle (presumably with some flash way to put them into play)
One big spell (i.e. Exsanguinate, Expropriate) - any Fork that copies spells, or possibly Refuse // Cooperate
Voltron - Threaten effects, Deflecting Palms only if big enough to kill w/o commander damage.
Infinite activations combo (i.e. DEN + pal, kiki conscripts) - ....multiple theft effects at instant speed with enough any-color mana to use them and/or a way to exploit it (Last-Ditch Effort)?
blood combo - ....same thing? Except now we're enchantment-restricted? I guess Commandeer would help?
mike trike - ...oh god idk, maybe flash out a Bitter Ordeal and a draw spell? But only if you don't get targeted first?
So far it seems like the deck DEFINITELY needs to be red. Blue seems second-most important (and ofc counterspells give a fall-back "well, at least neither of us gets to win" plan). After that, white and black both have their advantages - I think white has more counter-punches, but black has tutors which could make us a LOT more flexible (in response, Demonic Consultation for my counter-punch). Green doesn't seem to have many counter-punch options from what I can see. I'd prefer to keep this to a 3c deck or less if possible.
More thoughts on things-needing-"countering" or ways to counter-win against them would be appreciated. Or if you've got an alternative strategy for justifying counter-winning. I'd also be curious how viable the Raff storm combo would be, even if it might not be my cup of tea.
Every once in a while I toy with the idea of doing something similar in commander. Reset + Reiterate is pretty easy to pull off, all you need is 7 mana worth of lands (and 8 total), with nearly any instant to finish the job. But then I think about it harder, and realize that it doesn't really make sense. Because the combo is infinite, there's not any value to waiting - you're not delaying to increase your odds by having more lands/cards before attempting to storm off (which could make the difference between success and failure in Solidarity). The only reason to delay, once you've got the combo, is either to wait for a tap-out, or...just for the surprise factor. Which seems rude, frankly. If I went for the win, only to find out that someone else had been sitting on the win for turns, with plenty of earlier tap-out opportunities, giggling to themselves about funny it was going to be to counter-win, I'd be pretty annoyed that they'd been wasting my time.
But I still like this idea, so the question becomes: what would justify waiting until the last possible second for a win? My main thoughts are:
-To increase the odds of success with a non-deterministic combo (like Solidarity).
-Because some on-board situation is necessary for it to work which requires an opponent in a winning position.
The former seems difficult - of course I'm aware that people build storm decks, but all the ones I've seen played are very much sorcery-speed, usually with a lot of free artifacts and whatnot. That could still work with something like Raff Capashen, Ship's Mage, but I'm really not a fan of non-deterministic combos since they generally take forever to resolve. Still, put a pin in that since it's a potentially interesting idea.
The second option is kinda close to other decks I've seen, that use cards like Rakdos Charm and Deflecting Palm to redirect a loss into a win. But that got me thinking - how many different ways to win are there that would need to be "countered"? And which colors would be necessary?
Infinite creatures/go wide - Rakdos Charm
One (or more) very big creature(s) - Deflecting Palm, Backlash, Agonizing Demise, grab the reins, other threaten effects at sorcery speed.
A large (but not super large) number of large (but not super large) creatures - Reins of Power, Insurrection (+ fog if necessary beforehand)
Mill - Laboratory Maniac, Thassa's Oracle (presumably with some flash way to put them into play)
One big spell (i.e. Exsanguinate, Expropriate) - any Fork that copies spells, or possibly Refuse // Cooperate
Voltron - Threaten effects, Deflecting Palms only if big enough to kill w/o commander damage.
Infinite activations combo (i.e. DEN + pal, kiki conscripts) - ....multiple theft effects at instant speed with enough any-color mana to use them and/or a way to exploit it (Last-Ditch Effort)?
blood combo - ....same thing? Except now we're enchantment-restricted? I guess Commandeer would help?
mike trike - ...oh god idk, maybe flash out a Bitter Ordeal and a draw spell? But only if you don't get targeted first?
So far it seems like the deck DEFINITELY needs to be red. Blue seems second-most important (and ofc counterspells give a fall-back "well, at least neither of us gets to win" plan). After that, white and black both have their advantages - I think white has more counter-punches, but black has tutors which could make us a LOT more flexible (in response, Demonic Consultation for my counter-punch). Green doesn't seem to have many counter-punch options from what I can see. I'd prefer to keep this to a 3c deck or less if possible.
More thoughts on things-needing-"countering" or ways to counter-win against them would be appreciated. Or if you've got an alternative strategy for justifying counter-winning. I'd also be curious how viable the Raff storm combo would be, even if it might not be my cup of tea.